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Open thread on lights

Original post made by anonymous, Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle, on Oct 13, 2010

"...While supporters of the school district consistently represent that lights and the PA system will only be used "a few nights during home football games," we suspect that the school's intentions are far more pervasive than that.

Is there another reason the school would be unwilling to put any limitations into a binding agreement?"

Pogo:

The thread for proposals is flawed in that the actual parties are not interested in posting suggestions, assuming that you and Mr Sanctimonious are as independent on the issue as you claim.

The neighbors haven't posted. The school hasn't. As a school supporter, I have, but I can't validate the school's position, as I'm not qualified.

And despite what you say, the school has entered into an agreement with the neighbors, with specific times and days, only to see (other?) neighbors sue. We don't know, because they are also anonymous.

Like you and I, on this board.

Comments (45)

 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 3:06 pm

As I understood it, this thread is simply intended to be a suggestion box for the community and the impacted parties. With all of the contention on the other threads, I think the intention was provide something constructive - the parties are free to ignore or use the suggestions.

If the agreement that you reference is the one that says the school can use the lights on any weekday, that's not much of a limitation (except for Saturday and Sunday), is it?

Is that "the agreement" that you are referencing? Agreements are signed by the parties and enforceable in court. Was this one signed by the neighbors (or anyone for that matter)? Is it binding on the district?


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Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 3:10 pm

Also, you refer to Mr. Carpenter as Mr. Sanctimonious.

If you are serious, why don't you try to post your comments without the sarcasm and invectives?

PS - Although this issue has little impact on me, for what it's worth, I support the use of lights - with the limitations I enumerated on the other thread.


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Posted by Lehua
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 13, 2010 at 3:29 pm

I am not directly involved in any of this and this is my first post at the Almanac. I have, however, read through some of comments on this subject. I thought I would pass along what I do know. If you read the very log thread that was closed, you can see that many of the people referred to a meeting yesterday. From a neighbor, this meeting was held. Apparently it was productive, discussing the lawsuit, any required EIR studies and ways to best approach getting lights for kids and how to proceed with the district and the person that filed the lawsuit. My neighbor indicated that they now have another blog for communicating, because the feeling was that two people on the original postings were continually berating them and that they had made the discussion nonproductive. (Don't jump on me here, just the messenger)

This explains why no one has been commenting on Mr. Carpenter's EIR site. It's not that they want to remain anonymous or don't care. It appears that they do care greatly, but have chosen to discuss it elsewhere, without the drama that they feel he and Mr. Pogo were creating.

There is no need to reply to me, as I will not be checking back. Just letting you know what I've heard.


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Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 4:10 pm

Just in case you're reading this, which I suspect you are, thank you, Lehua.

Unless you have an extraordinarily low threshold, there's obviously no drama on this thread.

As I stated earlier, this thread simply lists some constructive ideas for the parties to consider... so the school can end up with lights and the neighbors with peaceful enjoyment. It is not intended to be adversarial, only constructive.

However, because its intent appears to be only to overcome EIR objections, I suspect the "off-line" conversation you referenced is highly adversarial, but we'll never know because it is being conducted in secret, ironically, much like the litigants in Atherton...

I would point out that if you read the very long, previous thread as you say, you certainly noticed people siding with the use of night lights wishing that the rich people of Atherton would "die," repeatedly called people "cowards" and "a-holes," and even implied that Mr. Carpenter was behind the lawsuit.

To me, that's drama.


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Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:17 pm

Mr. Pogo,

No secret meeting. It was open to anyone. So is the blog. I think that families like yours, not in the MA school area, and the person who filed the lawsuit weren't notified, but that's about all. And not adversarial, just a format to constructively move forward without all the negatives here. All upbeat and positive with great suggestions!


 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:33 pm

If it was so open and public, why hasn't anyone publicized either the meeting or blog?

And still just as anonymous as those nasty litigants (often referred to as "cowards").


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm

As I said, Mr. Pogo, it was publicized and lots of phone calls and emails sent out. It just doesn't necessarily have to be on this site. Most of the people have said they aren't reading this anymore because of the mean spirited nature of 2. (Your responses here are giving me insight as to why they feel that way)


 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 5:48 pm

Sorry you find my remarks so offensive.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Oct 13, 2010 at 7:03 pm

Danno:

if you find Pogo's comments offensive I suggest you read the closed thread and you will get a real dose of offensive posts. And they weren't coming form POGO or Mr. Carpenter.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 13, 2010 at 10:48 pm

Danno states:"No secret meeting. It was open to anyone. So is the blog. I think that families like yours, not in the MA school area, and the person who filed the lawsuit weren't notified,"

I live in Lindenwood and am a member of the local homeowners and the local civic association and I was not notified of the meeting nor do I know of any of my neighbors who were - sounds like the meeting organizers were cherry picking, or maybe looking for sour grapes to me.


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Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 13, 2010 at 11:42 pm

Mr Carpenter:

"I live in Lindenwood and am a member of the local homeowners and the local civic association..."

Where might the links to the minutes of those meetings be posted?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 2:55 am

The rules for how NOT to build a community consensus:

1 - Spread lies and innuendos about anyone whom you think might possibly disagree with you

2 - hold a secret meeting with only those people who share your opinion

3 - agree amongst your carefully chosen group

4 - keep that agreement secret

5 - label anyone who disagrees with your secret agreement a coward, a-hole or tell them to go die

6 - remember that when the official draft EIR is published everyone will be allowed to comment on it and all of your secret work will have been for naught.

There is another way - see
Web Link



 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 8:12 am

"2 - hold a secret meeting with only those people who share your opinion
3 - agree amongst your carefully chosen group
4 - keep that agreement secret"

Still waiting for links to your board notes, Mr. Everything in Public....


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Observer
a resident of Atherton: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 8:44 am

Peter and Mr. Pogo Stick,

You sound like little kids that got left out - "Mommy, some of the kids were mean and didn't invite me to a party, so I'm going to lash out and say mean, bad things to them."

Don't you see how ridiculous you sound???!!




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 8:47 am

Secrecy is not a kids game but rather an insult to democracy.

Observers would do well to make sure that things are observable.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:01 am

Mr. Carpenter,

Just because you weren't asked to be part of a discussion doesn't make it a secret. Observer is so right--you sound like a mad little kid who is lashing out.

There was NO secret meeting. Anon is also right--where are your board notes. There have been several requests that you continue to ignore.

You have no idea how silly and ridiculous you do seem. You can continue to be the bully here, but it's really hurt your case. No one, except maybe the Pogo person, is taking you seriously. Maybe it's that people don't value your input. Maybe you should look to yourself and the way you are approaching things. It might be hard to hear, but give it some serious thought. The way you respond now is doing the exact opposite of what I'm guessing you want. You would be better off just leaving this site and this topic alone for a while.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:05 am

Have no fear - I won't go away.

For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear.

Any constructive comments from the world of anonymity?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by WhoRUpeople
a resident of another community
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:08 am

First, thanks Anonymous for opening up this thread. Peter, this is a bit off topic, but I did feel the need to correct something you posted on the thread you started for registered users only and your comments that the lack of participation meant a lack of interest. I actually went to the Almanac's page to register so I could continue to participate in the discussion. You are incorrect when you stated that all one needed to provide is their email address. Other required fields include your full name, city of residence and zip code.

To the topic, it sounds at least to me like the school district Board is proceeding in their "business as usual" way. That is, we know what we're going to do, we really don't care what people think, we will do a bit of cosmetic stuff to make it look like we do, and in the end, we'll declare ourselves exempt from CEQUA and move on. I honestly don't care one way or the other if the lights & PA system go in--won't affect me at all either way. However, I do live in the school district and the approach this school board (every member) takes on issues does affect me and I don't like it.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:12 am

Sounds like a threat, Peter. Real classy on your part.




 +   Like this comment
Posted by Observer
a resident of Atherton: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:19 am

[This and numerous subsequent posts removed; poster using different names on same thread violates terms of use.]


 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:22 am

To the people who support the school district's actions -

Because it draws on a very broad spectrum of our community, M-A has historically been a very challenging school.

So enjoy spending your money on light towers, public address systems, football games, performing EIRs and, of course, litigation (and I suspect there will be a lot more in your future). After all, your district seems to have it's drop out rate, graduation rate, API scores and college admissions well under control.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:22 am

Yo, "Mr Sunshine is the best disinfectant",

"For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear. "

Because the organizations you belong to do not publicly publish minutes online? Third request.

"For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear. "

Because the hypocrisy is going to make us laugh so hard, we... what?

"For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear. "

Oh, the fear....


 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:24 am

Observer -

I guess that hoping we all "die" thing didn't qualify as a threat for you.

Get real.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:25 am

My only threat is to secrecy in the public's business.

WhoRU - you are correct about the registration process. The information provided simply allows the editors to police the site and to reprimand or remove people like Observor who don't observer but who simply try to foment disorder.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:30 am

Peter Carpenter:

Because the organizations you belong to do not publicly publish minutes online?

Fourth request. Please enlighten us.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:33 am

Anonymous - I belong to a number of organizations? Which ones in particular have aroused your interest?

And to which organizations do you belong?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:36 am

Peter--Again, we are all asking for your secret board minutes. Why do you continue to ignore the request?

And to Pogo, yes the "die" comment was bad, and EQUALLY bad is Peter Carpenter's threat.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:41 am

Peter:

In post 10, as you are WELL aware, you claimed:
""I live in Lindenwood and am a member of the local homeowners and the local civic association..."

In a post moments later, among other things, you pontificated:
"2 - hold a secret meeting with only those people who share your opinion
3 - agree amongst your carefully chosen group
4 - keep that agreement secret"

So: where are the online minutes to the relevant groups you bragged about?

Fifth request.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:44 am

If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly.

Again, I belong to a number of organizations? Which ones in particular have aroused your interest?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:46 am

Danno states:"EQUALLY bad is Peter Carpenter's threat. "

My threat is "For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear." Hardly a death threat unless you have a mortal fear of the public's business being conducted in public.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:46 am

Peter:

Stop being obtuse. You bragged about two:
"I live in Lindenwood and am a member of the local homeowners and the local civic association..."


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:48 am

My bad, I forgot:

Sixth request.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:51 am

If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 9:56 am

Seventh request...

Peter - YOU brought up two organizations as relevant to THIS discussion. You then blasted (a mere two posts later) others for hidden meetings, etc..

I agree with you. I think those organizations ARE relevant. One suspects they have had discussions about this very subject.

Public disclosure seems to be YOUR mantra on these boards.

Where are the online minutes? C'mon, good neighbor, protector of the public's right to know. Let the sun shine in, Peter.

Peter?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:00 am

If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly.

Anybody who has anything positive to contribute to THIS topic can go to:

Web Link


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Danno
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:01 am

Agree with Anon. Peter, where are the minutes? And yes, you are the one that brought them up on this thread? Where are they???????


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:04 am

Mom - read what I said carefully "For those of you who want to operate behind closed doors I am your worst fear."

Now please tell the Editor how you translate that into a threat to families and kids.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:06 am

Peter:

"If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly."

YOU brought it up on THIS Board.

Let's throw you a lifeline here. Would you like to say that the two groups you mentioned above are NOT relevant?

Would you like to say that they should NOT publish their minutes online, making them available for the public to see?

Would you like someone to post the definition of the word "hypocrisy"?

Peter?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:08 am

If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by POGO
a resident of Woodside: other
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:12 am

Once again, the parents and students of MA have put on an incredible display of cyber-bullying by using threats (and false charges of threats), gossip, secrecy, innuendo, disception and outright lying.

I've rarely seen such disingenuous posts on The Almanac website, and I've seen quite a few. You remind me of parents at little league game.

This is not only a commentary about our priorities and the current state of our education system, it is a deplorable example for your children. And I thought this was about the children.. Silly me.

I'm going to take a shower and rinse all of this filth off.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:20 am

Pogo:

Shower? Because of Peter's hypocrisy in saying meetings of folks he opposes should be open to the public, and then refusing to even discuss the two groups he bragged about a moment earlier? Pogo, I agree. If he just responded as first requested.

Sounds like the sacred shroud of secrecy up at the Grove.

What are you hiding, Peter, about the two groups YOU refereed to as relevant to THIS discussion:
"...the local homeowners and the local civic association..."

I'm losing track. Eighth request, or ninth, Peter?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:25 am

At the risk of another tirade, perhaps a class in English comprehension is in order:

"If you want to discuss other issues and other organization then please start a new topic or contact me directly."

Which specific word do you not understand?


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:39 am

Peter:

A tirade by others, not. A charade of your own making, yes.

You brought up two groups as relevant. I agree with you. Where is your vaunted public disclosure policy now?

Or is your "mantra" of open public disclosure only a tool you use for those whom you personally dislike?

I'm done, if you are. Ten requests ought have given you ample opportunity.

* * * * * * * *

I fully expect this thread to mysteriously disappear. Folks: download or back it up, for posterity.

Peter Posterity.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:45 am

Why shut it down? This topic seems to be a great place for trash talk - thereby saving other topics for thoughtful sharing. Try it sometime, you may find it useful, but a bit challenging.


 +   Like this comment
Posted by anonymous
a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 14, 2010 at 10:53 am

Peter:

Yet again, I agree with you: please "thoughtfully share" why you think bragging about those two groups in a lights thread is relevant, and why you refuse to answer the requests.

And also thoughtfully share why you believe others may think it is "a bit challenging." Really, Peter? Do you feel THAT superior?

You're stepping in it again, Peter.


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