Posted by Hmmm, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 10:15 am
The cyclists need to grow up. Contesting these tickets is ridiculous. I see them in that area constantly blowing through stop signs. In fact, I see cyclists of all ages on the peninsula blowing through stop signs. It's dangerous & it puts them & motorists at risk.
Posted by Bill, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Sometimes when a group of bicyclists are riding together, they think they can all stop at the stop sign same time, then all go together when it's their turn. The law says they are supposed to go one at a time, taking turns with cross traffic. If that slows down car traffic for 10 minutes, so be it.
Posted by cc, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Rules of the road and common courtesy....this group of cyclist has been breaking the law too long:) A big THANK YOU to the San Mateo County Sheriff Department. How about ticketing for not riding single file on a narrow road.....such as Old La Honda Road....just a thought....
Posted by Max Crittenden, a resident of the Menlo Park: The Willows neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 12:46 pm
As a cyclist, I'm glad to read this story. I often see even parents escorting their small children blowing blithely through stop signs on bikes. But "cc", remember that cyclists are entitled to "take the lane" if they feel that the road is too narrow to pass safely. Riding side by side strikes me as a more visible, hence safer way to take the lane.
Posted by Menlo Parker, a resident of the Menlo Park: University Heights neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 1:09 pm
I wish the sheriff would send his cops to Altschul Ave (unincorporated Menlo Park) too. Now that school has started, the flocks of kids riding bikes the wrong way on a one-way street have returned. They ignore both the Do Not Enter and the One Way signs as well as the stop signs on Altschul. I have seen parents encourage the students to disobey the traffic laws; unfortunately, it's the kids who are endangered. Cars don't expect to encounter bikes head-on in the middle of the road, but that's where the kids are riding.
Posted by Lawbiding Citizen, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 2:14 pm
I am so happy to hear that someone is enforcing the law. Yesterday I noticed a well dressing biker on Sand Hill Road who powered right through a stop light at Pasteur Drive. I slowed down and made a point of looking at his face so that he would at least realize that someone saw him breaking the law. We arrived at El Camino about the same time and I was happy to see him come to a full stop. However, after checking his cell phone, he again arrogantly powered right across a busy El Camino, against the light, risking both himself and the mid day drivers. Every time a biker is struck by a car the presumption is that it is the drivers fault, but I believe that bike riders are more likely to be at fault because of their disregard of the law. Thanks to the few that do abide by the traffic laws.
Posted by Downtowner, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Terrific work, SMCSD. Now, would you please come to MenLo Park & do the same thing? Intersections @ Middle Ave-Univ. Dr, Middle-Olive, and Glenwood-Laurel have the same problems. Cyclists running stop signs & making left turns without a signal are dangerous. Yeah, yeah - they don't want to "lose momentum". Tough. Cars have momentum & they stop. What makes cyclists special? Nothing but their rudeness & disregard of traffic laws.
Posted by Holly Nash, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Thank You,San Mateo County Sheriff's Deputies. As the driver of a very wide horse truck and trailer, I worry constantly about bicyclists who do not respect the bicycle line on the road, as well as stop signs. I believe we can all work together to make the Town of Woodside both horse-friendly and bicycle-friendly. This tremendous setting requires tremendous respect for the law. Let's make this easy and obey the law!
Posted by swg, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 7:12 pm
For group of riders to stop and then proceed individually (taking turns one at a time) makes no sense. A group of riders should be treated as a single unit and after all have stopped be allowed to proceed together. This is clearly the most efficient way to keep traffic following safely.
Posted by TwoWheeler Too, a resident of the Menlo Park: Sharon Heights neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Hurray for the Law! 'Bout time the scofflaws and self-important bikers get their comupance. There is no one one the road more arrogant than these bike-riding idiots. Let's see more of this law enforcement!
Posted by swg, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Why do not we hear about ticketing of motor vehicle drivers that fail to yield and force bicyclists to brake hard or swerve to avoid an accident. Any vehicle (motor or pedal powered) should not force another vehicle or pedestrian to make an adjustment to avoid an accident.
I have often been on rides were a car(s) at a 4-way stop wait and wave a group of cyclist through the intersection. Is this a ticketable offense and should the car drive be ticketed for "obstructing" the legal flow of traffic?
Posted by Hmmm, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Yes, swg, law enforcement tickets cars that don't yield, I've seen it locally a number of times. If there are areas you ride where this is a frequent problem, call the authorities & ask that they crack down on these drivers.
The thing is, it doesn't matter if you're right if you're dead. There are bad drivers & cops that enforce the laws that they break. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't crack down on the cyclists who break the laws. My partner cycles all the time & even endures the criticism of drivers when he's obeying the law. He's been hit & inured as well.
One of the places I see the stupidest cyclists taking ridiculous risks is Stanford campus. Lack of helmets, riding while talking on cell phones, ignoring traffic signs, weaving in & out of traffic.
Of course those in cycling clubs will continue to break laws whenever they can because those laws slow them down. As soon as they can see that law enforcement's not around & that car is far enough away, the blow through stop signs & red lights. It's just gotten more annoying & more dangerous because the sport has gotten more popular.
Posted by More Cars, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Yeah we need more cars so those bicyclists no who is in charge, when was the last time time anyone on a horse in woodside picked up horse dung off the road.....yeah I guess that is ok no law for that money wins again
Posted by Driver and Biker and Roberts shopper, a resident of the Portola Valley: Central Portola Valley neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 10:05 pm
What's interesting in reading this is that most commenters identify either as drivers (who think all bikers are scofflaws) or bikers (who think the same of drivers). It is my impression that bikers are honoring lights and stop signs much more than three years ago. Then, as a pedestrian crossing Sand Hill Road, I was nearly run down by a biker blowing through a red light at full speed. And as recently as last month I was reminded that motorists can be completely crazy -- a line of low-slung Corvettes gunned their way up Whiskey Hill Road, passing cars two at a time in a no-pass zone. So bike club members who ride in large groups, could you talk among yourselves about how best to avoid intimidating or ignoring your fellow road users and instead being good citizens on local roads? By the same token, I hope those cheering the SMSO cheer just as loudly for tickets given cars that hog the bike lane. They might also remember that most bikers, unlike all but a few motorists, routinely ask those stopped by the roadside if they need help. Share the road is both about the physical geography of lane markers and the emotional geography of respect.
Posted by Phil M, a resident of another community, on Sep 7, 2010 at 10:34 pm
As a cyclist, I am slightly alarmed by the hostility shown in the comments. I understand the concerns about disrespecting stop signs. But the tone of several comments here go beyond a civilized discourse.
Without condoning the cyclists in question it would be interesting to know if they rolled through the stop sign at a speed less than five mph, or if they barely slowed down. There is a significant difference between slowing to the point where you can easily stop if there are other road users, be they pedestrians, equestrians, other cyclists, or motorized vehicles, and completely ignoring other road users.
it is frustrating to read that "cyclists routinely blow through stop signs". Not all of us do, so please note that the generalization does not serve any purpose, except to blow off steam if you're feeling frustrated.
I hope the county sheriffs are as diligent about citing motorists who exceed the posted speed limits as they are about cyclists.
Posted by Isaac, a resident of the Portola Valley: other neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 10:47 pm
I normally follow all the rules of the road when i ride my bike . Instead of riding on the right shoulder, I'm going to ride smack in the middle with a support vehicle going 15 to 20 miles and hour. completely legal. Give you guys a taste of your own medicine. See you all on canada, sandhill and portola!!!!
Posted by No Name, a resident of the Menlo Park: other neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Sounds like an orchestrated event to me, a setup, police in plain clothes (heard it through the grapevine)...the above comments in favor of motorist--residents of Woodside, this could not be any clearer; by the way, there was no mention of a "Todd" in the original article. Kudos to the Woodside residents for keeping their exclusive neighborhood to themselves, their own private backyard.
Personally, I think automobiles, SUVs, Trucks and the like are much more intimidating and dangerous than their smaller counterparts --- how many tickets were given out to motorists that day...or that week...or month?
I think the taxpayers' money should go to improving tense relations between the residents of Woodside and ALL cyclists ... including their own cyclist residents...cyclists are also taxpayers..not to mention, stand for a healthy lifestyle and promote physical fitness.
Posted by carpool driver, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 11:02 pm
I wouldn't say that the majority of cyclists flout the laws, but we sure notice the ones that do. I had a cyclist scream curses at me the other day when, after coming to a full stop at a 4-way stop sign, I started up and continued through the intersection, forcing him to slow down as he approached the stop sign (he didn't come even close to stopping).
I didn't hear him, but my kids did.
One of my usual routes takes me down a residential street with few stop signs; all the cross streets have signs. The speed limit is 25 mph, but anyone who drives that fast risks hitting a cyclist who's decided to blow through a stop sign. Most don't, but a significant percentage do.
Finally, one of my kids had a soccer game last weekend. When we arrived at the field, we found that half the parking lot had been taken over by dozens of cars of cyclists, all clad in matching regalia. Since it was a public park and a public lot, they had every right to park there -- no objections to that. However, by the time we arrived, they'd taken their bicycles out of their cars and were standing around talking in the lot, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they were blocking everyone else from parking.
I hope the police in other areas take up the cause, as we could use some ticketing of cyclists in the flatlands too.
Posted by carpool driver, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 11:06 pm
P.S. To those cyclists who claim that the rest of us are obese and unhealthy, may I suggest that you take up a more useful form of exercise, like refereeing kids' soccer games? That way you can stay fit, perform a public service, and not irritate half your neighbors in the process.
Posted by Citizen A, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 7, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Cheers for Linda and her post. Many and most Woodside residents would back you to get that done.
Basically, we are sick of rude bicyclists who with their girly outfits are trying to prove some ridiculous ego fantasy. Oh yay, you know how to bike. Uh, no one cares. Except for maybe mountain lions who may chase and attack you for some lunch.
Posted by Randy, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:03 am
I lead a group of charity training rides on this very same road in question for about six months of the year. My sponsor group requires strict adherence to the California Vehicle Code (what most call the rules of the road). With this we are required to stop at EVERY stop sign and red light. Dont follow the rules and we will not let you ride with us.
Being a cyclist who averages about 4-5,000 miles a year I know that in my experience most cyclists dont stop for stop signs. People will try to argue they slowed down to see if it was safe. Last I checked the law doesnt give you an option, the sign says STOP.
The real problem isnt bicycles versus motor vehicles, the problem is attitude. Everyone has one and everyone thinks they are right. In fact no one is. Every motor vehicle operator and bicyclist violates the vehicle code often. Most people dont know what they are required to do too properly operate their preferred choice of transportation. That little pamphlet you get from D.M.V. would make terrible Cliff notes. That is obvious from all the incorrect assumptions and statements on this thread.
My point is the Sheriffs Department didnt write citations to people who didnt break the law, so dont break the law and you wont have to worry about getting a citation, leave your elitist attitude at home and it becomes easier to obey the law on your bicycle or in your motor vehicle.
Posted by Protected from myself, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:36 am
Wow, I am impressed that San Mateo County's crime rate has dropped to the point that the no less than two law enforcement officers are ready to protect the cyclist from themselves.
Of course the awful cyclist deserve to be run over, because they cause such risk to our communities. After all a 20 lb bicycle can do a lot of harm to a 2 ton automobile. Besides, it down right un-American not to be burn gasoline, sitting comfortably in a 300 horsepower, and conserving calories. These people are indeed crazy and do long belong in our communities.
I wonder how many tickets the offices gave to those motorcycles who are roaring through our communities at 100 mph with illegal muffler systems? Or drivers with cell phones in one hand and coffee in the other. Or cars that do "rolling stops" through stop signs at speeds that many cyclist can't reach. Or preventing the 1800 injuries to pedestrians trying to cross El Camino.
Yes, indeed we are so lucky to live a county with such a surplus of good law enforcement. I guess we can cut taxes after all.
Posted by Gritty Girl, a resident of the Portola Valley: Ladera neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 7:36 am
That's one intersection I'd never blow through - too dangerous!
Drivers: when you stop at a stop sign, you lose your momentum (duh). To get going again, you consume more gas to overcome the inertia. For cyclists, this means using stored calories and muscle power. It makes you more tired. That's why I often slow down but don't completely stop. For example, if I come up alongside a car which is starting to go through a (simple) intersection, I move along with it. That also means one less stop/wait event for cars going the ore way.
Someone complained about cyclists in Roberts. How elitist -- is the money spent by drivers more valuable than money spent by cyclists? Pay attention and you'll notice that Roberts makes a LOT of money from cyclists. In fact, I was thinking the other day that Roberts should be more attentive to that demographic. For example, a couple of benches so people don't have to sit on the edge of planters.
Each of us is a full human being and should be respected as such. No matter how we get to Roberts, we're all customers. If any customers are allowed to use the bathroom, all customers are allowed to use the bathroom. Wearing funny clothes and shoes doesn't change that fact.
And don't forget that some of us spend lots of money there, arriving by car or by bike.
Posted by lock up all cyclists, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 7:58 am
After reading many of the locals entries concerning this issue, I feel it would be best if the Woodsiders just go ahead and turn their special area into a gated community. Set up armed guards and shoot any cyclists wearing "girly outfits" (they are easy to line up in your sights) if they so much as look like they would like to use "their" roads to get from point a to point b.
As a lifelong cyclist who rides on the many public roads of the peninsula (it's where I live), I will now avoid riding through your internally rotten community, will not support you businesses, and will always preface "Woodside" with "@#%*" which is my right - you can not gate my opinion. I apologize to any rational, reasonable (and most likely not republican) people who may live there.
Posted by An observer, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 8:15 am
If rules are going to be enforced upon one group, then they should be enforced upon all. Yes, I am a cyclist and don't have an issue with what took place if the law was broken. However, I happen to be riding with an older gentleman this past weekend who mentioned the issue he encountered. He was at that intersection, in front of Robert's Market, stopped, and tried to make a left onto Canada. A pack of motorcyclists came down Canada. The first one stopped, but when he went through the intersection, so did the rest of the pack. As this older cyclist tried to go through the intersection (when it was supposed to be his turn), the motorcyclists flipped him off and went their merry way.
This is a busy intersection, especially on weekends. Let's be fair and treat all parties alike.
Posted by Woodside hiker, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 8:39 am
I drive and bike on Mtn Home Road and yes, I have been inconvenienced by bikers often and it's annoying. But Woodside is a biking and hiking mecca and we're lucky to live here, so we need to take a deep breath and just slow it down and watch out for bikers, walkers, horses and deer! (Bikers, if you would not ride two abreast, it would make it safer for us to pass you.)
On the stop sign issue, it seems like the pack should stop in a group and then proceed in a group. Residents would really be inconvenienced if each of the 50 bikers came to a stop individually at that intersection.
Posted by David Nader, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 9:00 am
The adults of Woodside seriously need to question their ability to get along and share space with other people. You do not own the roads - you are a *community* living in a space with people who have different interests that sometimes don't perfectly blend with your ideal view of the world. Everyone (including mortorists, horseback riders, etc...) are occasionally guilty of violating the law. But because some do, doesn't mean EVERYONE does, so...stop generalizing, putting all cyclists into the same bucket, and learn to recognize and value our freedom to enjoy our community in different ways, rather than paint an ugly picture of an entire group of people. Although it may be uncomfortable at times, try being tolerant of others and know that generalizing an entire group based on the actions of a few is not an example we want to set for our kids, and no way to get along in a place where we ALL have to *share* :)
Posted by palo alto parent, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 9:16 am
Cyclists blowing thru stop signs - anywhere - always amaze me. If a bike and a car meet in an intersection - the person on the bike will loose, no matter who is in the right. If people on bikes want to be respected, they should follow the rules of the road.
Posted by A. Contador, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 9:28 am
Since were having a discussion on cycling, let me chime in and say this. One thing that I have observed while ridining my bicycle around the mountain roads that is very dangerous is the following:
A car will often come up behind a cyclist and suddenly attempt to pass them by getting into the oncoming lane of traffic, then suddenly a car (or cyclist or motorbike) will appear coming in this lane and often we have a situation where a head on collision is narrowly avoided, simply because the passer attempted to hastily make a dangerous manuever, without simply giving the cyclist a chance to respond in kind or waiting for a safer part of the road to pass in- and thus scaring the heck out of all parties, and needlessly risking the lives of all. Please try to excercise patience while travelling on these roads, instead of terrifying the other people who you use them- however they may travelling upon them.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 11:23 am
Wow, looking at these posts, its amazing how many car drivers out there hate cyclists!! When was the last time a cyclist killed a car driver, verus the other way around? Car drivers, especially rich, mean, Woodisde residents, get a life. Im sure most of you are fat, ugly and with bodies that would make you throw up if you saw them in spandex. You are out there, sitting pretty in your steel boxes. Wow, you are tough!! The next time you are in a conflict with a cyclist, get out of your car and face it man to man, instead of trying to kill us then driving off. I ride a bike every day, and most car drivers seem to think that they own the road and put bicyclists lives at risk every day with their reckless actions, like driving too close, cutting us off, etc. Of all the billions that are spent on the roads each year, how much is spent on bike lanes, etc? And as for the cops, havent they got anything better to do than harass cyclists? Maybe they should all retire early on their bloated pensions which are bankrupting this state. I mean the cops are really struggling, most of them can barely afford to maintain their boats and second homes.
Posted by Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 11:48 am
Hey Bobby, do you realize that you sound like an elitist snob when you make comments like the one above? Do you think that when you live in a town this gives you exclusive rights to the roads and trails? Why don't you go out on the streets and talk like this instead of bullying people anonymously from your home. [Portion deleted.]
Posted by Woodside Commuter, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Just to inject some realism into the debate:
I have often been behind a group of cyclists approaching this intersection. While somewhat annoying, I usually am not long delayed in getting past the stop sign. This is largely because the group on bikes makes it through the intersection quickly. This would not be possible if each cyclist stopped and then individually proceeded through the intersection as if they were a car. It may not be completely legal, but it seems safe and gets everyone through the intersection faster.
I agree that blatantly arrogant cyclists who run stop signs endanger themselves and drivers. Cautiously and slowly proceeding through a stop sign as part of a group is considerably different and perhaps should be treated distinctly by both the police and drivers.
Posted by Don't need name, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:05 pm
I think all cyclists should stop at that intersection! Come as organized group and stop, one by one passing it. This probably will take the entire intersection for good 25-30 minutes. Let's see if the "concerned citizens" will like it. But this will be in full compliance with the law (even though the law does not state that cyclists should put a foot down at a stop - only do a full stop).
Let me assure you - they won't. A few weeks ago one of the Saturday's groups was escorted by a Sheriff Officer and that didn't stop "concerned citizens" from laying down on they horns to express their anger and frustration with "god-damn-cyclists-occupying-our-own-roads".
One more note. Registration, insurance, "slalom around the bikes to get into store"? Really? Sounds like an insurance agent's speech to me. BTW, cyclists are also customers of Robert's. The bigger problem are the drivers who pull out from both parking lots without looking.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Actually, it's not the law that cyclists must ride single file. It is a law that cyclists must use a bike lane that is on the road, but if that lane is wide enough for two, multiple bikes may use it. Also, did you know that if there is no marked bike lane, bicyclists have NO OBLIGATION to ride in the shoulder? We tend to, since it's generally safer, but if there's no bike lane we are allowed to ride in the lane on the right side (or even in the middle if the lane is too narrow for a car to pass safely in lane). If there's no bike lane, then cyclists may choose to ride in the shoulder, but there may also be cyclists riding next to them on the right side of the lane. On narrow roads, it is the passing vehicles responsibility to use the other lane to pass, instead of cutting dangerously close to cyclists. If it's a no passing zone, unfortunately it's tough luck until there's an opportunity to pass (just as if there were some other slow moving vehicle in the road).
I would also like to point out that although many cyclists tend to roll through stops signs without coming to a full stop (though only when there is no traffic - the ones who roll through in traffic are a minority), the same can be said of drivers. In fact, there's even a term for it: the California Stop. Very very few drivers of cars come to a complete stop at every stop sign when there are no cars coming, and very few people get mad at them because everyone does it. So why is it such a big issue of cyclists roll through slowly when there aren't any cars around? I know that it is the law for everyone to stop, but if you're going to pick on the cyclists, remember that you're probably also being a hypocrite, since you too have probably rolled through a stop sign or two.
In addition, in response to some comments that were made about driving to bike or cycling being a useless endeavor, please realize that some of us out there ride everywhere. I ride to work, I ride (or walk) to stores, I ride for fun, I ride for training/fitness, and I race my bike. So please don't tell me to go referee your children's soccer games (I used to play too), because I would rather ride my bike and save on gas at the same time.
Oh, and by the way, two of my teammates have been hit by cars this summer, both in situations where they had the right of way (green turn arrow, going straight on a road), resulting in broken bones. I have also witnesses countless infractions made by drivers of cars - failure to signal when turning or changing lanes, rolling through stops, driving in the bike lane, failing to properly merge into the bike lane for right turns (did you know that it's the law?), etc. So it's not cyclists who use the roads improperly, it's drivers too.
Posted by SJ, a resident of the Woodside: Family Farm/Hidden Valley neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Great Job!! I wish the Sheriff would see what these bikers do around Portola Rd and Old La Honda Road when they are in groups. They cross the white line and the cars cross over the yellow lines and it's blind curve and a head on collision is inevitable one of these days. Drivers are impatient too and violate the rules because of these guys and gals.
These scream obscenities and leave trash in our newspaper boxes. They thump the cars after they DO not stop at the stop sign. Weekends are very scary and school timings around PV school district because no matter what the driver will be at fault.
Posted by Adult, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 12:59 pm
I am flabbergasted at the amount of vitriol in some postings. I am also pleased to see sensible postings from both sides of this debate. Let's be clear; stop signs are there for ANY vehicle on the road, be it a bicycle, a motorcycle or a car. A rolling stop (some call it a California stop) is as illegal for cars as it is for bicycles. The police should not be there to "set an example". They should be there to enforce the law, which applies to every vehicle using the road. On this note, I wish there was more enforcement of speeding vehicles. It is not acceptable to have a car, truck or motorcycle going through small roads at freeway speeds. It is dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders and other drivers. I guess every person that uses a road has a "war story" to tell. The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "data". Let's focus on what really matters.
Posted by Steve Schmidt, a resident of the Menlo Park: The Willows neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm
An utterly justified traffic stop in Woodside, results in an outpouring of kudos and weeping far surpassing anything generated by pension reform, David Bohannon & Gail Slocum, Safe Routes To School, Cargill/DMB, Transit Oriented Development, the Grand Boulevard, Stanford Hospital Expansion and even High Speed Rail.
This is a teachable moment as to why cyclists need to obey all provisions of the California Vehicle Code and not consider themselves special cases: Whenever a person riding a bicycle does something contrary to the CVC and is observed by a motorist, that motorist will file away the experience in the bad behavior database. The next time any cyclist appears, the association returns as well, and over time all cyclists will suffer the effects of these accumulated crimes against authority. Get off the road, you dont matter to me, ride on the sidewalk, you dont pay taxes, get out my way, we dont need bike lanes, next time Ill run over you, I didnt see him/her, grow up and drive a car!
There is lots of animosity built up against people who ride bikes. There are a lot of bicyclists who share the blame. Every time someone on a bike runs a stop sign or does anything else stupid it reflects badly on every other bicyclist, law-abiding or not.
Its in our interests as people who ride bikes as commuters, shoppers, kids, parents, aspiring racers or fitness devotees, to follow the established rules, to be mindful of the mistakes that others are all too capable of making and to not damage our standing as legitimate users of public roads.
Posted by Skylonda Commuter, a resident of the Woodside: Skywood/Skylonda neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Wow. I am seriously disappointed in the type of sentiments that people in this community are expressing. I live in and commute through this area. I've never had a problem with cyclists -- I've never provoked or been provoked by one either. Realistically the recreational car drivers who cause uncountable accidents at the intersection of 35 and 84 (and I am sure other areas) are a bigger problem. These cars do come to a complete stop at the top of 84, then ignore the big flashing lights that say "Cross Traffic Does Not Stop" and proceed to cause some of the most horrific accidents I have ever seen. Big trucks on 84 have caused some serious accidents too. Motorcyclists also cause a lot of accidents, injuring themselves and others. Why the outrage at cyclists and not the people who cause fatalities and serious injury? I swear I take my life in my own hands when I drive here on the weekends....and I am not afraid of bicycles killing me.
Posted by Linda again, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Ahhhh the subjects of bicyclistsc
Where shall I start?
Quote: gThe adults of Woodside seriously need to question their ability to get along and share space with other people. You do not own the roads - you are a *community* living in a space with people who have different interests that sometimes don't perfectly blend with your ideal view of the world. Everyone (including mortorists, horseback riders, etc...) are occasionally guilty of violating the law. But because some do, doesn't mean EVERYONE does, so...stop generalizing, putting all cyclists into the same bucket, and learn to recognize and value our freedom to enjoy our community in different ways, rather than paint an ugly picture of an entire group of people. Although it may be uncomfortable at times, try being tolerant of others and know that generalizing an entire group based on the actions of a few is not an example we want to set for our kids, and no way to get along in a place where we ALL have to *share* :)h
Regarding this statement, it is correct in many ways, but there are always those that are always in a hurry, no matter what means of transportation. The SMCSO does give many tickets for vehicles speeding, rolling through stop signs, and passing double yellow lines. We all want to share, but being given the finger gesture and profanity shows the mentality of the cyclist. There are always a few that ruin it for all of us.
Quote: gWow, looking at these posts, its amazing how many car drivers out there hate cyclists!! When was the last time a cyclist killed a car driver, verus the other way around? Car drivers, especially rich, mean, Woodisde residents, get a life. Im sure most of you are fat, ugly and with bodies that would make you throw up if you saw them in spandex. You are out there, sitting pretty in your steel boxes. Wow, you are tough!! The next time you are in a conflict with a cyclist, get out of your car and face it man to man, instead of trying to kill us then driving off. I ride a bike every day, and most car drivers seem to think that they own the road and put bicyclists lives at risk every day with their reckless actions, like driving too close, cutting us off, etc. Of all the billions that are spent on the roads each year, how much is spent on bike lanes, etc? And as for the cops, havenft they got anything better to do than harass cyclists? Maybe they should all retire early on their bloated pensions which are bankrupting this state. I mean the cops are really struggling, mo far as what Woodasiders look like, st of them can barely afford to maintain their boats and second homes.h
If you have an issue with the rich Woodside people then why would you ride in this community, and not ride in your own community. As you mentioned about the fat and ugly rich people of Woodside, again, why are you here? Are you showing us your mentality again? If I were and have had a confrontation with a bicyclist, I would immediately call the SMCSO to resolve the issue, as the cyclists are ready for a fight, how mature and responsible is that?
The SMCSO is all we have for protection against you unwanted pieces of pond scum. We want walkers, joggers and horses.
Want noise and a little action, drive your spandex rears up to an area where it is safer, and maybe you can make sure you have a pink dot on your driverfs license, at least we could use you organs for something as you do not have any brainsc As far as what a police office can and cannot afford has nothing to do with this issue.
To those that claim Woodside exists so they can hike and bike why don't you do both where you live.
Great point, get lost; you are not welcome unless you have manners, and it is obvious you have never been taught any.
Quote: gHey Bobby, do you realize that you sound like an elitist snob when you make comments like the one above? Do you think that when you live in a town this gives you exclusive rights to the roads and trails? Why don't you go out on the streets and talk like this instead of bullying people anonymously from your home. Take it to the streets Bobby, and see how the people react to you then, if you have huevos rancheros hanging down there. Good day.h
We pay higher taxes; maintain a lot of private roads, which cyclists seem not to understand. We live here because we have worked hard and earned, get a life and get out of our peaceful community
Quote: gWow, we should all feel so much safer now! Things must be going pretty well for both Woodside and the SMC. Sheriff's Dept. that they're down to busting group rides in order to keep busy and productive. Most places in this world do not enjoy anywhere near the law enforcement staffing levels and crime rates that would allow or justify 5 officers the luxury of sitting around and waiting to shoot fish in a barrel like this.h
Are you stating the law enforcement in this area is lazy? How would you like to have their job with attitudes like yours? They put their life on the line for us every day, and if you thing being in law enforcement is easy, what not try to get in, will not happen with your attitude, shape or no shape, law enforcement does not accept attitudes.
Please stop the public urination along our scenic area, we do not want to see it!
Are you smarter than a fifth grader? Do you have any idea of the weight of an automobile vs. a bicycle and rider, Duh?
Riding in youfre cycling clubs means being outside enjoying the fresh air and scenery, not acting like an angry pack of wolves on the hunt for an altercation.
Talking on a cell phone while biking is just as illegal as in your car; can you grasp the concept, and the danger?
Why is the finger and the profanity the choice of cyclists? Is it to show your mentality, could be why you cannot afford to live here? Why not a smile, excuse me, Ifm sorry, anything positive instead of negative would be an improvement!
Why when you are in your pack do you need to yell back and forth at one another? Why not enjoy the tranquility of these small quaint communities,and not add more noise pollution?
Keep a copy of this and read it before each ride, it MIGHT help, who knows?
Posted by Equality, a resident of the Portola Valley: Central Portola Valley neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:45 pm
I made an observation one weekend. My wife parked at Robert's where I could see the eastbound lane of Woodside Road at the intersection with Canada/Mountain Home. I counted 50 motorists who stopped at the stop sign.
Two stopped, 48 rolled the stop sign at a safe speed. Of the two who stopped completely, one was clearly confused and was looking for road signs. The other was a monster truck with huge tires, and he burned rubber away from the stop sign.
So the only truely law-abiding citizen was lost.
Everyone else moved through the intersection safely, even the monster truck, but did not meet the letter of the law. The reality is that virtually NONE of us drive or bike 100% within the law, but we normally do it safely and courteously, which is the social norm for our state.
Let those who are guilt free point fingers. The level of hate displayed in this forum is disturbing.
Posted by jonma, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Sharing the road is really dangerous and impractical.
There should be separate bike paths, and cyclists should pay for them.
When I drive, i hate pedestrians. When i walk, i hate drivers. No matter the mode of transportation, i hate cyclists. The majority of the population does not welcome cyclists. Please go away, cyclists and your stone age mode of transportation.
And for cyclists who believe that cycling is more environmentally friendly, it isn't. Cyclists eat more food, and the amount of energy and greenhouse gas emissions from food production, especially beef, is atrocious.
Posted by Jim, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:13 pm
I am a long time resident of Woodside. I rode a bike when i was younger, and if i was physically able to, would still be riding one today. Personally, I like the color that the bike riders add to our community. I am retired, and not in any hurry to get anywhere, so they don't hold me up at intersections. On any given weekend, I am willing to bet there are more bikes using the intersection at Canada Rd and Woodside than there are cars. Whether we like it or not, the bikes are here to stay, and their population is going to grow as the years go by... so lets enjoy their color and vitality!!
Posted by Jamie, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:21 pm
I ride through Woodside a lot, and have a good idea for cyclists.. Use all the stop signs as an opportunity to do Power Stomps.. A favorite workout of Lance Armstrong and George Hincapie.. Shift into a big gear before the stop sign... come to a complete stop... then stomp on the gear for about 10 seconds.. Great strength workout!!!
Posted by Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Hey linda thought you should know that when I saw how long your post was I immdediately was turned off, and read maybe a sentence or two at most. Perhaps you should look for a publisher if you want to write a book on the subject- otherwsie get to the point.
Posted by Jane, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:27 pm
First off, I agree that sometimes sharing the road can be dangerous and impractical for all parties involved. However, driving is a privilege and cycling is a right, so why shouldn't the roads be for cyclists while those who drive build a completely separate system for their cars? Obviously that's ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than insisting cyclists pays for their own paths - everyone should share the cost (everyone pays taxes that in turn pay for roads, but not everyone owns a car).
Secondly, cycling is way more environmentally friendly than driving. Yes, we may eat 500-2000 more calories per day, but that's nothing compared to the cost of manufacturing cars and transporting gasoline, not to mention the actual burning of gasoline to haul around the gigantic pieces of metal that we call cars. I agree that beef is a huge waste of resources, but that's a discussion for another day (and besides, I'm a vegetarian). Also if you're going to say that eating more food isn't environmentally friendly, maybe you should go rant about overweight people and food waste in fast food.
Posted by James Hokusai, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:34 pm
I'm a driver and a cyclist in Woodside. Sometimes I am in a group of cyclists. When I've stopped at a stop sign (while in a group) very often I get a nasty reprimand from the cycling cretin behind me, for stopping, and not rolling the sign. I understand people don't want to rear end me.
Linda, in her comments, seems a cretin as well. Take a deep breath Linda, Come up for air. Live and let live, and I want you to obey the letter of the law in your driving. If you don't, ticket baby!
The way I see it, we all need to look out for each other, whether we be in cars, motorcycles, bikes or pedestrians.... I suppose that includes the stupid as well...
We all need to observe the law, what would our traffic flow be like if noone observed the laws.
Posted by Skylonda Commuter, a resident of the Woodside: Skywood/Skylonda neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I honestly believe the posts here are not a fair and accurate representation of the local sentiment. Those who are motivated to express such base sentiments and incredibly disporportionate levels of aggression over this are really indicating that they have greater issues (house, job, divorce, general misery). It half amuses me to see the same people who roll through the stop signs....we all do....get so worked up over this issue.
In any case, I used to think us "mountain folk" up at the top of the hill were the crazy ones.....apparently not so much.
Posted by carpool driver, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:48 pm
"cycling is way more environmentally friendly than driving..."
Sure, if you're cycling to work or to run errands. But most of the cyclists that are posting on here are recreational cyclists who drive their gas guzzlers over to the coast or up into the mountains so that they can bike around with their macho spandex-clad buddies before hopping back into their gas guzzlers to drive home. The cyclists who use their bikes to get around town don't ride in packs and they tend not to exhibit aggressive tendencies.
The recreational cyclists burn a lot more gasoline than I do, using my hybrid as little as possible. And then they have the hubris to act holier-than-thou because of their "green" form of recreation.
Look around you -- not a whole lot of fat people around here. We non-rec-cyclists have figured out how to get exercise without having to use our middle fingers.
Posted by jonma, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 2:58 pm
no jane, converting a burger into energy is way less efficient than burning gasoline. you also have to take into account the transportation costs of food here. each time you eat, you are partly paying for the environmental impact an 18 wheeler to drive across america. i eat only about 700 calories a day and i am an healthy, fit and 160 lbs. Humans don't need to eat that much and im tired of cyclists claiming to be environmentally friendly when they go home and eat that 12 oz ribeye.
Posted by stoplight, a resident of the Menlo Park: Fair Oaks neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Woodside, isn't it about time you consider a stoplight for this intersection....I know heaven forbid you think about upgrading your town to a one light town.
Seriously, how many weekends do the police need to come out and direct traffic through this intersection due to the backup created by the stop signs, just this weekend they had to do the same thing again due to the traffic caused by the art show on skyline. Seems that a light would be a good approach here.
Posted by Realist, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm
I hope that the next group ride of 60 cyclists at that intersection follow the law to the letter. Because of the danger of cars attempting to pass them at the sign, all 50 riders should line up, one at a time, and come to a full stop at the sign, looking in all directions. This should take about 10 seconds on the average for each cyclist, for a total time of about 10 minutes for the entire group. Of course, that will delay all of the cars behind them for 10 minutes, which I'm sure they won't mind, since drivers in Woodside are always so concerned about cyclists following the law.
Posted by La Hondan, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 4:57 pm
I live in La Honda, so I hope I won't get bashed as an elitist who wants to "gate" my community (we have tie-dye and hippies out here, and the only gates keep the cows from getting out...;-) I don't want anyone to get hurt, not me, not my children, and not someone driving another car, riding a bike or a motorcycle. What I see on my everyday commute, as well as while running weekend errands, on roads that are my community's lifeline to the rest of the world, is, unfortunately, people behaving badly. I see bikes not only not following the vehicle code, but also not following simple rules of common sense. I am afraid these bicyclists will be injured or killed or will cause an accident that will injure or kill someone else who is trying to avoid them. I see motorcyclists who use our road as a speedway, cutting corners on blind curves and they die out here every month, all summer long. I see drivers of cars and trucks not being patient with slower vehicles, including bikes.
Each one of you who has posted on this list needs to assess your own attitude and behavior. I am fortunate to live in such a special place that a lot of people want to visit the place that I and my family call home. Please be courteous, patient and put your safety and the safety of everyone else on this road above all other interests. Then we'll all be o.k.
Posted by Not Linda's Fan, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Your exaggerations to gain momentum in your cause is disrespectful and reckless. Your narrow minded assessment that all cyclists are how you perceive them is quite frankly, ignorant.
It is clear that you have had your personal issues with cyclists and have a definite stance as you have listed off a rambling of concerns which are very interesting to read.
You've truly been spit on NUMEROUS TIMES? Really?
You've had cyclists endanger their lives to be "Attached to all 4 doors of your car while driving on Hi 84, coming down from Skyline"? Amazing. In either case, if true, I would suspect there is another side of the story that you have not told. No one goes out of their way to do either of those things unless provoked. Care to share the full stories?
As for your rant about Robert's Market:
Would it ever occur to you that some of the shoppers inside Robert's Market happen to be cyclists that do spend money there and may need to use the facilities as patrons? In which case they have every right to use the restroom as you do.
I find it interesting that you are able to make a generalized statement that "all of us in our cars" abide by the rules. I must not drive among the people you speak of as most everyone I see on the road does not abide by every law, including myself. Are you brave enough to admit the same? Seems not as it would go against your case.
The closure of Canada Rd is for ALL users, bike or not. That includes hikers, families walking, skaters, etc.
The street sweepers sweep the debris off the streets so that ALL users (Cars, Motorcycles, Bicycles, and Pedestrians) have a safe surface to travel on. You may not have even stopped to think that people riding bicycles pay sales taxes in the county, own and drive cars that are registered in the county, pay gas taxes in the county, pay property taxes, and so on. Yes, just like you.
It sounds like your list of complaints has been long stored up and you've made your mind up about cyclists. I think it is unfortunate that there are readers that will take your comments as fact and stereotype all cyclists based on your highly dramatic and narrow minded determination.
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 7:35 pm
La Hondan -
Excellent post, thank you. It would be nice if everyone could show just a bit of courtesy, but I fear that is wishful thinking. This has been a big problem in Woodside for a very long time and our Bicycle Committee has tried, unsuccessfully, to remedy it.
I once saw a bicycle rider throw a water bottle at a woman driving in a minivan. It bounced off her roof. I have also seen more than one driver deliberately squeeze a bike rider off the road, one rider was badly injured (and yes, I stopped to help him). Obviously, neither is acceptable.
People who live on beaches have to put up with sunbathers. I guess living in Woodside means that we have to put up with bicycle riders... and vice versa. It's another Rodney King moment.
Posted by member, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 8:23 pm
How did this become "blowing" through stop signs. I was there, I got a ticket. If anything, we were moving at 2 to 5 mph maximum, rolling slowly, attentive to all traffic. After all, we are much more vulnerable than the people driving cars are. The sheriff wrote the ticket for 10mph, he was being dishonest and I called him on it and asked him if he had proof - he did not, it is a judgment call on his part.
Will I contest it? Probably not, I am too busy making money to pay taxes (federal, state, county, sales, etc.). Oh yeah, I make enough income such that Obama will not be cutting my taxes in 2011, so please, don't tell me about paying to use the roads.
I would rather see my tax dollars used to catch drunk drivers, cell phone users (texting, lack of hands free device).
Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky, a member of the Woodside High School community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 8:58 pm
Just curious as to whether those who believe that cyclists should stop individually, one at a time, before proceeding through a stop sign, believe that's an absolute that applies across-the-board? Because most of the posts here seem to stress absolute, rigid positions, no fuzzy gray areas, no possibility that there could be some other view than their own.
Sticking strictly to the letter of the law, a parent on a ride with his or her young child needs to send that kid ahead or behind them when they cross. I think most folk here can see how much more dangerous that would be, and how unreasonable any law must be that requires that. And yet, that's what we seem to be talking about here.
My kids are now 17 & 22, so I'm not too worried about them going through an intersection ahead of me. But I'm also not too worried about my son and I pulling up together to a stop (and I do mean a *stop*... we do not roll through intersections!), waving cars through if it's their turn (yes, I do that frequently), and then moving together through the intersection. I don't think that's unreasonable, nor do I think we're likely to ever get harassed for doing so. Not by other drivers, who will have no reason to think us inconsiderate, nor law enforcement officials.
We can safely share the road, cars, cyclists & pedestrians, without resorting to absurd absolutes and flared tempers.
Posted by Dear Linda, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 9:10 pm
wow - specifically regarding Woodside resident Linda... scary. You are a true beacon of vitriol. I will be very progressive/compassionate and give your community the benefit of doubt that you are by far the smallest most hateful person in it and not the norm. Most residents are just clueless (sorry but it's true) but you are a very sad and tiny person. I feel sorry for you. Signed, a cyclist who used to use your public roads.
Posted by Retired Officer, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Here are the related California Vehicle Code sections for the initial topic here (see DMV site):
21200(a): Bicycle riders are subject to all provisions of the vehicle code applicable to the driver of a motor vehicle, and exceptions.
21202: Bicycle to be opperated on the right side of roadway when traveling at a speed less than the normal flow of traffic, and exceptions.
21208: Movement from bicycle lane.
21209: Vehicles and bicycles in bicycle lanes.
22450: Stop required behind limit line or before entering cross walk at posted stop sign.
Safety is determined by each individual's awareness of their environment and adherence to the laws. All parties, regardless of what they are driving, riding or walking must be observant and considerate of others. Most drivers are only "looking" for other 4-wheeled vehicles and thus can easily miss the other common modes of transportation (especially children who are harder to spot due to their smaller stature). Some individuals are blatant and careless violators and others simply make a mistake. On our shared public roadways we must all make the effort to do our part by paying attention and following the laws.
Posted by KMT, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2010 at 10:50 pm
As a resident of Woodside, I have seen all kinds of cyclists. While the majority are respectful of this community and road rules, on a daily - yes, DAILY - basis I see cyclists who are rude and self-righteous who seem to want to challenge drivers.
Some examples of bad behavior by a few that makes all cyclists look bad:
1. My mother and my young child, walking on the road we live on, being approached from behind by a several cyclists who yell at them to "get the f*** out of the way".
2. Cyclists who chose to ride side by side when clearly a car is trying to pass them.
3. The cyclist who decides to pass another cyclist while I am attempting to pass them, forcing me to swerve into oncoming traffic to avoid them.
4. The ipod wearing cyclist who doesn't hear my car coming.
5. The pelaton who cuts across a left turn at full speed and almost has a head on collision with me as I was coming to a stop on the street they were turning on to. And then they yell at me to slow down!
I could go on and on because as I said, these things really are daily occurrences.
And God forbid you ever honk at a cyclist for being reckless. I did this once and was yelled at (with young children in the car) to "F*** off". Then the cyclist chased me to the next stop sign, banged on the back and side of my car, rode up to my driver's side window and basically called me out. I just drove away and told the sheriff the next time I saw him (this is a small community, and as such we get to know the sheriffs here. As well as seeing bad behavior by cyclists, they also hear about it from the residents).
I see sheriffs in our community pulling automobile drivers over far more than I have ever seen cyclists being cited. I wish I saw more cyclists being ticketed for their offenses.
Sadly the bad behavior by a few cyclists on our town incite a negative image for the group as a whole. Rather than place the blame solely on the seemingly sour attitude of Woodside's residents, hopefully the cycling community can be open to understanding where their frustration is coming from. As visitors to our community, they should respect the residents here and do what they can to make themselves welcome - simply be courteous!
Posted by Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 8, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Hey KMT, it sounds like you have had some really bad experiences with bicyclists, and you mention that you could go on and on.
Well, if I had to mention all the rude behavior from people in cars or have been scared to death by automobiles or cylclists I could go on forever. I think your experiences are an anomaly or you are just have bad luck, because what you say sounds unbelievable. I've been riding around these hills for many years on bicycle and in a car and have never seen cyclists swear at kids to get out of the way. You sound sort of like somebody who has decided they simply don't like something and because of this fact you are either going out of your way to criticize others or your negative attitude serves as a magnet for negative behavior directed your way. I think you need to lighten up, get over the fact that bicycles exist and aren't going away no matter how much you hate them, and try to be more tolerant of other people..."the peloton went right in front of me....started yelling at me..." I get it now, you like to play the role of the victum, and thus, everybody on a bicycle in your eyes is committing a crime.
Step out of this role. Try to imagine another way, be positive, and maybe you will learn that your new attitude will be a magent for positive behavior, and maybe then you can complain about something worthy of your time, like endless war, extraordinary rendition, dismantling of the middle class, loss of freedom for citizens, global warming, dying oceans, nuclear armagedon, to name a few. Try to focus on real issues, and maybe you won't find yourself spinning around in mud.
Posted by jonma, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 12:06 am
the point is, almost everyone who isn't a cyclist does not appreciate their presence. and most people aren't cyclists. people bicycling around is a much more immediate and real issue than ndless war, extraordinary rendition, dismantling of the middle class, loss of freedom for citizens, global warming, dying oceans, nuclear armagedon. i get directly affected by cyclists every day and i'm tired of it. bicycling needs to be made illegal, or at least cyclists need to be licensed. making a driver accidently kill someone is no better than killing the driver from the driver's point of view. please stop riding your primitive flintstones transportation as they are endangering everything and everyone around them.
Posted by BigAl, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 3:39 am
Jonma is clearly irrational and out of touch with reality if he/she thinks riding a bicyle should made illegal. Perhaps you should take a look around the nation/world and see that the loss of liberty and environmental degradation are all to present and prevailing threats than to life on earth than somebody cycling around through the hills, and clearly is begging for attention or is delusional. Just because you can only see what's at the end of your nose doesn't mean that everybody else is so utterly ignorant. I suggest taking a look beyond your own trivial mind, and step into the real world where the vast majority of people would dismiss your childish position in a heartbeat as they realize that you are just plain crazy, and that to argue with somebody like yourself is the equivalent of a professional football player beating taking on a preschooler in a wrestling match.
Posted by Wow, a resident of the Menlo Park: other neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 5:21 am
So many posters taking themselves so seriously...and so hateful of the opposition. Only THEY hold the high ground and know the way. Being as extreme and vile as possible is boring and gets us nowhere. Bravo to those who see both sides, or at least state their side like adults. I cycle from time to time and obey the law...and I have been driving and insulted and threatened by a spandex primadonna on a 10 speed...but I know all cyclists are not like this. Glad the Sheriff is taking an interest. Hopefully this will dissuade any tough guys from road rage incidents. Here is a hint...obey the law, drive or ride safe, and there is NO ISSUE.
Posted by Peter Carpenter, a resident of the Atherton: Lindenwood neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 7:37 am
Wow states:"Here is a hint...obey the law, drive or ride safe, and there is NO ISSUE. "
I agree. With rights come responsibilities - you cannot have one without the other.
The problem is that, in my experience, the vast majority (but not all) of bicyclists demand their rights on the road but routinely ignore the rules of the road, particularly stop signs (which are not Yield signs).
Posted by BVO, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 9:31 am
KMT and Big Al: I have witnessed similar experiences from drivers and cyclists. There is a more pervasive problem on the roads everywhere: pure selfishness. There are good people out there who take turns, and are considerate of others. However there is a very aggressive minority of self-absorbed "me me me-ers" who just plow through everywhere they go to seize everything for themselves. I wish more tickets were issued to teach these greedy people to respect the law, the community they live in, and their fellow citizens.
Posted by Alex, a resident of the Woodside: Emerald Hills neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 10:34 am
Wow. I had no idea that so many people despise Woodside. Makes me wonder if some of the crude and/or illegal bike behaviors are an extension of that resentment, envy, or whatever it is, that causes such animosity towards us, the residents. Two weeks ago, on Runnymeade, for no apparent reason, a biker screamed "A..h...!!" at me as I drove by, well under the speed limit & in my lane, and then flipped me off. Nice. I live in an area of VERY narrow (one lane) roads with many blind curves. Lots of us walk the neighborhoods at all times of day with dogs, kids, etc. It seems the bikers have recently discovered the thrill of hurtling out of control down these roads - in increasingly larger numbers. This is a tragedy waiting to happen. Even as pedestrians, there is no where to go to get out of their way. I've lived here 30 years, raised my children here, and now my grandchildren. I used to ride my own bike to town for groceries - not any more, nor can my grandkids, as it's just way too dangerous now. NEWSFLASH: bikers do not have the right to put anyone else, or their dogs or horses, at risk of injury, or worse. You are NOT entitled to be jerks, scofflaws or menaces, just because you're on a bike. Go treat your own neighbors, friends and families that way, if you must. You've already destroyed the peace and safety of one small community - why not the one where YOU live?
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 10:43 am
The appropriately named "member" said "I would rather see my tax dollars used to catch drunk drivers, cell phone users (texting, lack of hands free device)."
And when it is your family in the car, bicycle riders flying down La Honda Road and Kings Mountain or who ride side-by-side or who travel in large pelotons ignoring the law, you'll want your tax dollars used to catch them.
Hey, here's a novel idea. How about drivers and bikers BOTH obeying the law!
Posted by Two-wheeled, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 10:48 am
Shall we not forget that a good number of cyclists that you bicycle-haters label as dangerous or irresponsible are the same cyclists that see it worthwhile to contribute back to your community and support your Woodside high school by paying to ride in or sponsor the Tour for Woodside in the past?
Posted by Ano Nymous, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I have no problem with penalizing those who blow through intersections at full speed. However, I have also noticed that our fine men (and women) in blue seem to have plenty of time to ticket cyclists who, for example, marginally coast through the T-intersections going South on Canada Rd., where there is absolutely no cross-traffic (fortunately this has not happened to me), and yet have absolutely no interest in policing/noticing much less ticketing motorists who are doing things that are actually extremely dangerous as well as being illegal, such as:
1) Motorcyclists weaving through traffic/splitting lanes at 90+ mph,
2) Motorcyclists going 110+ mph on Skyline,
3) Automobile drivers weaving through traffic at high speeds without using turn signals,
4) Automobile drivers who fail to use turn signals at all while turning or changing lanes,
5) Automobile drivers who throw burning objects (e.g., cigarettes, ashes), out of their cars; I think most modern vehicles come complete with ashtrays; and/or
6) Those who have no drivers licenses or insurance because they are illegals, in which the solution is a ticket, confiscation of the motor vehicle and a bus ride to the border. (Labor Day Weekend would have been an excellent time for this, since the cops were actually out in force checking to see whether drivers had licenses.)
Posted by Ano Nymous, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Right you are, "More Cars." I recently stopped at the Woodside Bakery in the middle of a ride. Some Woodside good ol' boy rode up and had his horse dump a load right outside this fine eating establishment. When I asked whether he planned to pick up his mess, he scoffed that, "This is horse country, and we can do whatever we want." Just like the Woodside snobs think they personally own all of the public parks/trails in their vicinity, and can effectively restrict access to/use of those lands to fit the needs of their horsey culture.
Posted by elle, a member of the Woodside School community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 2:59 pm
As a resident of Woodside I see the bike riders daily and always drive carefully as not to hit any. We have to accept the fact that Woodside is the nicest community in the Bay Area and everyone wants to be here - we have the most beautiful roads, properties and the best community of people I have ever met. It makes sense there would be so many people dying to come here.
Posted by I wish I lived there, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I'd like to respond to the numerous people who have commented that cyclists should stick to their own community and stay out of Woodside, etc. Let me explain something: the vast majority of cyclists who ride in Woodside and surrounding area are doing so for fun or exercise (or both). Just about anyone who rides a bike will tell you that they prefer to ride on empty roads with few stop signs/lights - not through suburban streets with stop signs every block, or busy urban streets with traffic lights and high risk of accidents. Unfortunately, this means that all of the cyclists who live in the cities of the peninsula all choose to ride on the comparatively secluded roads of Woodside and the surrounding area (Portola, San Hill, Mountain Home, Old La Honda, 84, Canada, etc). It's beautiful around there so naturally we flock to the area. And believe me, if I could afford to live in Woodside, I probably would, but since I'm just out of college, it'll probably be another 10-20 years before I can afford a small house in Woodside. In the mean time, please don't begrudge me and others the use of roads near your community, we don't mean you any harm and we're just trying to enjoy ourselves.
Posted by but I ride a road bike, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Sure, those trails are nice - if you ride a mountain bike or a cyclocross bike. But I ride a road bike - it's designed for traveling long distances on decent pavement. Are you really saying that no cyclists should ever be on a road? What did I ever do to you to make you hate me so? It is true that cyclists are the minority of road users (in the big picture at least), but does that mean that because there aren't very many of them they don't deserve roads to ride on or bike lanes to both protect them and keep them out of the way of cars? Instead of telling us to get out of the road, start a petition to add a bike lane to any road where you've ever been slowed down by a bicycle. We'll be safer and happier and you won't have to wait to pass us.
Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky, Chain Reaction Bicycles, a member of the Woodside High School community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 6:11 pm
So I stopped and spoke with a Sheriff's Deputy this morning, at Sky Londa where they were ticketing people who were traveling north on Skyline and making the right turn onto 84. Our group of cyclists (5) all came to a stop (without putting our feet down) before proceeding through, and while the others continued down the hill, I stayed behind and had a conversation with the officer. He'd heard but not read about the now-infamous incident in Woodside that's generating all this buzz. I filled him in a bit on it, and asked him a few specific questions.
Most interesting was that he couldn't see any reason, ever, to ticket 2, 3, 4 or 5 cyclists who all rode up to the limit line, stopped (which *he* said didn't mean putting a foot down) and proceeded through together. He doesn't even believe there's a law that would support ticketing in such a situation (but I explained to him that there are interpretations otherwise).
Note that this is different from the concept of a "train" of cyclists, where a large group moves through an intersection, figuring that as long as they're following closely behind someone else, they're fine.
I'm thinking, and the officer semeed to be thinking, that people are making a big deal out of the wrong thing here. There are plenty of examples of really bad behaviour on the road, but was this really one of them? Or was it just a final-straw sort of thing?
I strongly believe that cyclists should behave better out on the roads, but I just as strongly resent the idea that we should "stick to where we live" etc. In the communities many of us live, we have to put up with Ikeas and strip malls and all sorts of evils related to high-density zoning... things that Woodside would never allow, and yet Woodside residents rely on. We are not isolated communities; we are all inter-dependent, whether we want to admit to that or not.
Posted by jonma, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2010 at 6:12 pm
maybe you never did anything to make me hate you, but your fellow cyclists did by running stop signs, running red lights, refusing to pull over even when there are pull outs etc. you act like you have nothing to fear even when you are the most vulnerable. No one wants to kill someone accidentally, even someone they hate.
Posted by Alan, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Hey, what is the problem with people in this area? Do you have to MAKE others abide by what YOU believe they should do? Are you really that petty? If someone takes a risk, that's their choice, not yours. And what's even worse are those cyclists who are too much of a wimp to stand up for their position. How do you think professional cyclists are developed? Unless you have been part of a tough training ride, in which it is necessary to stay with the bunch or else you will get dropped and not be able to develop into a top rider, you cannot possibly have an appreciation for why cyclists will behave as a collective group. There is no other better training method. When a group of cyclists stay together, it behaves as a cohesive unit. It's called in the sport of cycling, the peloton. The need to stay together is to challenge the participants to develop their fitness and skills in a way that cannot be done simply by riding alone. So, a group usually behaves like a "train" and just like cars would wait for a tractor trailer to work its way through a stop sign, what's the big deal letting a training group through the same way? I can assure you the ones heading the peloton always obey traffic signs, as dictated by default etiquette as anyone who is an experienced rider knows. The rest of the pack moves through following the leaders as a cohesive unit.
If you had a large family with children riding up to the same intersection. Would you complain that the children didn't stop individually on their own and ride through alone by themselves after each parent goes through one at a time? Would you let your kid work through an intersection by himself/herself, whether you go before or after him/her? Or would you ride through together? If the latter is what you would do, then well, by the letter of the law, call the police!
How petty and controlling can some people be? If you can't handle that situation in your car, then maybe you shouldn't drive, bec driving is a privilege too and a responsibility, not a right, correct?
Posted by Jeff, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Just a calm little footnote. The article quotes a Pen Velo rep as claiming to be the largest performance-oriented road cycling club. While Pen Velo is a respected and competitive group, it has half the membership that Alto Velo has, and the active Alto Velo roster includes several world champs and Olympians. See you at the races, baby!
Posted by I work in MP, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Bicyclists have the right to share the road. No question. But I do not want to ruin my day or anyone else's because a few people can't obey stop signs and become a serious hazard. I don't know how many times I have been ready to take my turn at the 4-way stop on Menlo Ave and Crane in downtown Menlo Park, just to have a bicylists blow through the cross traffic stop sign. It is such a shock -- don't they realize that hitting them is going to be really inconvenient????
Posted by Dryclist, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I own a car AND a bike. According to the polarized views in this thread, I should be wriggling around on the ground in a deep schizophrenic panic over this issue. Why all this cyclists v. drivers comic bookesque drama? Just use your eyes and practice some common sense. If you see a bike charging towards an intersection, then be safe, stop and let it go. If they stop, then you go. If you drive on popjlar bike route, then beware of blind corners. It would be nice if everyone was on the same page but we are not. Nothing will change that unless the state opens a Dept of Bicycling that issues cycling licenses. (Just joking)
Posted by Andrew, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 2:00 pm
@Jeff: The statement I made was that "...[Peninsula Velo] is the largest performance-oriented cycling club *in the Mid-Peninsula*". I acknowledge that Alto is a larger club, but the majority of your membership resides in the South Bay. I stand by my statement.
Posted by Ranch Gal, a resident of the Atherton: West Atherton neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Thank God for the Sheriff's Dept. finally DOING something with the lawless cyclists. A few years ago I was walking out of a shop on El Camino near the Park Theatre and a sidewalk cyclist (grown man) illegally cycling ON the sidewalk struck me and knocked me down to the ground with a huge force. I was injured but he gathered his bike under himself again and cycled away leaving me lying on the sidewalk. I had no recourse against this hit and run cyclist. No license plate, only a description of him and his bike. It was a terrible experience I will never forget. And so many still RIDE ON THE SIDEWALK. Totally illegal.
Posted by I work in MP, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Dryclist: There is definitely drama when a cyclist is hit by a car for both people involved. Unfortunately, some of these bikes come out of no where when it is the car's turn to go at a 4-way stop, everyone else is stopped and you already have looked both ways. It has happened to me a couple times too many and has scared the hell out of me and the arrogance/ignorance is maddening. It is a death wish and I, frankly, don't want to be the one to grant it. Further, licenses for byclists is an excellent idea -- it would help to educate those who don't understand the rules and laws as well as being able to identify hit and run accidents to others and property.
Posted by Hmmm, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 5:44 pm
A quick trip Stanford campus today, to & from the med school, I saw 11 cyclists w/out helmets. 3 were on their cell phones. One guy was wobbling on his bike at the stop sign while on his phone. I guess it was too hard to hang up vs practice safety. I only saw 6 cyclists w/helmets. While campus is relatively mellow this time of the year, there are still lots of construction vehicles, pedestrians, tourists & employees around. They run stop signs whenever they can & while many aren't going fast, a splat against the concrete, espec sans helmet, is still that - a splat. Wear your helmets & obey the laws, cyclists - you might live longer. But at least on campus they have sidewalks & bike lanes.
Posted by Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Truth be told- this whole thread is really about the moving mass of cyclists- not the singular folks, and those who mistakenly ride parallel at the wrong time and places- and apparently the law man thinks the entire peloton oughta stop one at a time at the intersection instead of moving through like the bee hive that they are- and which way is better and which way is legal don't always coincide with the law- and thus we have a situation here which has been blown way out of proportion- you might think that riding a bike in woodside is like taking your life in your own hands (which doing anything anywhere is potentially life threatening itself- afterall a meteor could hit you) and one might come away from reading this thread that there is a war going on in this town between those who pedal and those who don't- but truth be told- nobody really cares- it's a peaceful town, and filled with decent folks for the most part- and if the peloton has got you down- is slowing your progress down the road- is really beginning to ruin your overall experience as a being living on the planet then perhaps you should try to avoid it- pull over if you have to- listen to a song- read a poem- tell your wife you love her- whatever helps to ease the pain.
Posted by Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 6:01 pm
....by the way HMMM...it's good to know your out there monitoring the proclivities of the cyclists you witness on the road....we really need to know what's goig on out there, and good people like yourself keep us informed- perhaps you could also monitor all the truck drivers across the nation when you get a good vantage point and let us know what they're up to as well. It would be good to know. Thanks in advance!
Posted by Hmmm - to Big Al, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Oh, no, not the truckers! Cyclists are much better to watch - safer, too, because they can't squish my like a semi can. Who's smarter - the "brainiacs" at the farm who ride dangerously or the truckers? At least the cyclists are near the ER.
Who made you the expert about the peaceful lil town of Woodside? Please, continue to observe & opine about them - yawn! - so interesting.
Posted by Linda again, a resident of the Woodside: Mountain Home Road neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:09 pm
Regarding my previous comments, yes there are all true. Actually I lived off Skyline Blvd for a few years and that is where most of the spitting occurred.
I do not hate anyone, I am a law abiding citizen, who drives though Woodside in my big SUV, 25 mph. I know I have a big vehicle, and it takes longer to stop it, so I am not in a hurry, and do not want to have hit a bicyclist. I would not be able to live with myself.
I am just frustrated by the token few that have really ruined it for the true law abiding bicyclists.
As far as Robert's Market, I have actually sat and spoken with an employee, as we wait 10 min for a cyclist to come out after their mini bath.
Hate is not in my world, just a dislike for cyclist's that do not have a concern for the 2 ton vehicle there are weaving in and out of.
I also have a strong dislike for people in vehicles that are driving too fast, and not taking into consideration for pedestrians and horses.
WE ALL NEED TO SLOW DOWN AND ENJOY THE COMMUNITY, I do, do you?
Posted by BigAl, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Linda, it'g good to hear you are not a hater- it's too much of a burden, and you don't need to carry that around. I'm starting to see you in a better light. Good night. Hmmmmm....did you say something?
Posted by Mo, a resident of another community, on Sep 11, 2010 at 12:30 am
Yes bicyclists have to learn they don't own the damn streets. Today this bicyclist came barreling through a stop sign without stopping I had the right away and no stop sign for me and I hit this bicyclist because she blew through the stop sign without a care in the world I'm very thankful she didn't get killed and only broke her wrist and possibly her arm, she got an ambulance ride and a ticket for failing to stop. When the hell are these bicyclists going to learn that they are just like vehicles, they have to stop at stop signs like everyone else and they don't "own" the streets. Also get the hell out/off of the streets and stay on the damn sidewalks. Bicyclists are becoming a very dangerous hazard because they think nothing/no laws pertain to them. Police need to make much stiffer penalties for bicyclists that blow through stop signs/stop lights. It should be a very serious charge, possibly a suspension of your drivers license. Something has to be done or a lot of bicyclists are going to get seriously hurt or killed for their lack of not stopping and blowing through stop signs and stop lights.
Posted by George Fisher, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 11, 2010 at 12:11 pm
I am amazed at the animosity towards cyclists expressed in this chain. I am also concerned there is no safe route for school childrlent from La entrada school to the los lomitas area. the safest route actually appears to be going the wrong way on Altschul, which bothers drivers. I am currently in Santa Barbara, where there are many bike routes, all clearly marked, and general working together by cyclists and motorists on these routes. I think the cities around menlo park should band together to establish bike routes, diminish stop signs on these routes, and in by clarifying routes remove much of the animosity. presumably motorists driving along a bike route would realize it is not their exclusive domaine. Marking bike lanes is only part of a route designation. It should also include signs and safe connections to be followed by cyclists and clear to motorists from one bike lane to another. Too many cyclists have been badly injured and too many motorists think cyclists are simply an annoyance to their freedom of the road.
Posted by Donald, a resident of another community, on Sep 11, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Wow, we haven't had a good bicyclist vs motorist cat fight in a while, so I guess it was overdue. As George pointed out there are many things that Woodside could do to make the roads safer for bicyclists and drivers to use together. For 30 years, though, the town has preferred to ignore that approach and hope that by making the environment hostile they will discourage bicyclists. We can see how well that has worked! There are more bicyclists now than ever with no sign that things will reverse. I think that Woodside should acknowledge their existence and work to accommodate them safely, with engineering improvements and education for all. It takes a few politicians with courage to make this happen, though.
Posted by Ano Nymous, a resident of another community, on Sep 11, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Just so that I fully understand the laws of Woodside, are there any providing that:
1) Horsey types are not required to pick up after their animals when they leave deposits on public roads, trails, parking lots, outside restaurants, etc? (Speaking of the area around the Woodside/Canada intersection, I was specifically informed by a donkey on a horse just outside the Woodside Bakery that, "This is horse country, and I can leave my crap wherever I want." When I suggested that he might want to clean it up, his response was to have his horse charge me.)
2) Rich Woodsiders are allowed to unilaterally restrict access to public streets in their neighborhoods, as was the case on Tripp Rd., for example?
3) The special folks of Woodside effectively own and control any and all public parks in their general vicinity, such that their horses can tear up the trails and endanger others, but woe unto anyone who wants to walk a dog or ride a mountain bike?
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Ano Nymous -
I cannot answer your first question.
With regard to your second question, I can assure you that no homeowner, property owner or resident can restrict access on a PUBLIC road. There are, however, many private roads in Woodside and it can often be difficult to identify them. Many of them are cul-de-sacs that have been created, paved and maintained by those property owners and they can restrict access if they wish. Interestingly enough, most of Woodside's private roads do not serve "rich" homeowners as you have surmised.
With regard to your third question, there are two large parks in Woodside - Huddart and Wunderlich, and they are truly treasures. They are county parks and are not controlled by the Town of Woodside at all. They are managed by San Mateo County's Department of Parks. These parks are home to some of the very few trails that are reserved for horseback riding. Some of these trails are truly treacherous and, should a horse be spooked by a surprise mountain bike rider, the results would be catastrophic (in fact, there have already been several serious accidents when this rule has been violated). There is also a network of horse trails within Woodside - these are a combination of private and public trails. Many of these trails are on private property and the easements are at the pleasure of the property owners.
Posted by Trainspotting, a resident of another community, on Sep 11, 2010 at 10:28 pm
For Sheriffs to pull over cyclists for running stop signs, it's not a bad thing. It's the right thing since they are doing their job and that's what they are paid to do.
It's not a common sight to see Portola Valley and Woodside residents come to a complete stop at the intersections. I believe this is because various intersections in the area have enough traffic congestion (stop signs and lack of stoplights) that requires a complete stop. Many intersections have a lot of foliage making it unsafe for any vehicle to blow through a stop sign. This is a good thing.
It doesn't help since the area is a thoroughfare for highway 84. This adds to local frustrations around Robert's Market, compounded by the fact large groups of cyclists congregate in the area.
Often times when I drive through Menlo Park, I find cars blowing through stop signs and speeding above the 25mph speed limit. I live in Palo Alto and I see this in my community as well so it's safe to say this is not unique to any specific community.
My suggestion is to have the Sheriffs do their job (for once and earn their pension) and enforce the rules on all cyclists and all drivers. No one is above the law and no one should be given special treatment even if he/she has a Woodside address. I know because I have heard directly from several friends who live in Woodside that they have been let off the hook by Sheriffs because they live in the community.
Posted by Ano Nymous, a resident of another community, on Sep 11, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Tripp Road is indeed public, and homeowners increasingly restricted access to parking on the Woodside Store (North) end, by placing boulders and logs in front of their property. Eventually they cajoled or bribed the city management into placing "no parking" signs in the area.
As far as horse trails, are you kidding me? Do I need to count for you how many trails in this area are open to horses, vs. how many for dogs? And though I'm not a mountain biker, I did show up for a meeting several years ago concerning the issue of opening a single trail in Huddart to mountain bikes. The only people speaking were the horsey types, who are apparently independently wealthy and therefore could afford to show up and get in line early.
Posted by carpool driver, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 11, 2010 at 11:37 pm
"As cyclists, we are required to follow the same rules as cars, right?
So, in that case, why get mad if we are riding down the middle of the street and you cant go around us?"
Cyclist, you apparently are not well versed on the vehicle code pertaining to bicycles -- another good reason to require cyclists to be licensed! Specifically:
21202.(a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway
Some of you cyclists seem to believe that the vehicle code gives you carte blanche to be rude to everyone else. Maybe you need to read the rules?
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 12, 2010 at 8:36 am
Ano Nymous -
First you said - and I quote - "Rich Woodsiders are allowed to unilaterally restrict access to public streets in their neighborhoods." Confronted with the facts that this totally false, you deflect your position to a pathetic claim that these homeowners are only "restrict(ing) access to parking... by placing boulders and logs in front of their property." Really? "Boulders" and "logs" - that's your concern? Oh, the horror. I'm shocked that people haven't taken up torches and pitchforks.
You go on to complain that at public hearings about keeping horse trails exclusive "the only people speaking were the horsey types." And your point would be what? I think there are something like 250 horses in all of Woodside. There are probably more than 250 bicycles riding on Woodside's roads as I'm typing this (and I'll be one of them in about an hour). If a few of them can't even bother to take the time to comment at public hearing, then that complaint falls hollow. That's their problem...
Your posts are proof that it's remarkably easy to sit there and complain. I'm not about to find fault with those people who actually make the effort to do something.
Posted by Narnia, a resident of the Menlo Park: Sharon Heights neighborhood, on Sep 12, 2010 at 9:37 am
It says a lot about the bay area that these posts never mention PEDESTRIANS, only cars and bikers as if people crossing Santa Cruz are somewhat expandable....as if children walking to school and crossing say, Encinal, are just to be barreled into. But wait, most of those are children whose parents evidently believe in the Bikers' Guardian Angels. The disregard for public safety starts early...
We all have to use the road and there is something called the regular flow of the traffic. If bikers were not so insensitive as to want 30 of them together to cross on the stop sign and divided themselves, say, in groups of 5/6 those groups patiently waiting for their turn and letting the other left or right traffic use the crossing we would have better traffic flow, would we? What about the cars waiting behind the 30 to go ahead?
Traffic flow for different speed vehicles has to be adapted to the circumstances and rules of the road disregard common sense as do pedestrian, bikers, motorized vehicles when insisting on "their" rights. Bikers are indeed so dangerous that, on weekends, I refrain from using certain local roads, but I see plenty of motorists play blind with road rules and I'm afraid of those too. So, who is right?
Posted by Ano Nymous, a resident of another community, on Sep 12, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Darned right I'm concerned. How would you like it if homeowners in other communities arbitrating decided to block parking in front of their homes near public facilities that you would like to visit? In the example I gave for Woodside, it was Huddart Park. In a city such as Menlo Park, it could be, for example, Peninsula Presbyterian Church (you know, with all those annoying AM churchgoers).
Plenty of cyclists went to the Huddart Park bike trail meeting. It's just that they had actual jobs, and thus showed up when the meeting was supposed to start. The horsey people apparently were in on the scheme to allow first come to talk first and, since they had all day to sit around, arrived much earlier.
Meanwhile, can you tell me more about the "serious accidents" to which you referred? Maybe it's the horses that should be banned from the trails. Or perhaps the horses should stay off of the "treacherous" trails that you descibe, and leave those to dog owners and mountain bike riders.
As you note, Woodside neither owns nor manages these parks; why should the Woodside horsey people be allowed to dictate how they are used?
Posted by jonma, a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 12, 2010 at 4:26 pm
personally i think for the sake of public safety, bicycles should be banned. they are more dangerous to society than weed, cocaine, asbestos, and lead paint. I really don't understand why someone doesn't start an initiative to ban bicycles. i bet it'll pass.
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 12, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Ano Nymous -
I ride bikes and horses and I walk and drive a car, too. That doesn't give me any more standing than anyone else, but I firmly believe that horses and bicycles don't mix. I think it would be difficult to find an equestrian who disagrees.
First, you complain that some residents object to people parking in front of their homes (which is VERY different from your initial accusation that we Woodsiders close down PUBLIC streets, which was both untrue and absurd). News alert for you - local residents - including in Menlo Park - limit parking in their neighborhoods all the time. Have you ever tried to park on one of the residential streets near the movie theater in Menlo? Restricted parking exists in EVERY city. I'll bet the percentage of Woodside's roads with restricted parking is the lowest in the entire bay area.
But in the neighborhood you cited, bikers and dog walkers park in there so they can avoid the $5 admission charge at the entrance of the park. If they truly cherish our parks as much as you say, I would think they might want to throw a five dollar bill into the kitty when they use it to help maintain it. As an added benefit, there's a ton of parking in the parks.
Those neighbors who live on very narrow roads or cul-de-sacs, such as on Raymundo Road or Greer Road (where visitors frequently park to enter the park on a back trail), have a real safety issue when cars line their streets. Fire trucks cannot get in, cannot turn around and, to answer your next question, yes, there have been instances when medical attention was delayed due to cars on the street. That is, in fact, what precipated Woodside's Town Council to limit parking on those streets a few years ago. I'm sure you would feel the same way if you lived on an isolated narrow street. Local safety will always trump visitors' convenience. Especially, when they are just trying to avoid a $5 user fee.
And, as you acknowledged, Woodsiders do not control the park - it is managed exclusively by San Mateo County. If you did attend those meetings (as your post suggests), you would most certainly have heard SEVERAL equestrians who spoke and noted serious accidents (in one instance, a broken back) when they encountered illegal mountain bikers on exclusive horse trails. I'm not going to do your research for you, but it is very easy to google the minutes of those meetings and see the comments for yourself.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you complain (again...) that "the horsey people apparently were in on the scheme to allow first come to talk first and, since they had all day to sit around, arrived much earlier." There wasn't a secret conspiracy to suppress comment, Ano and no one sat there "all day." All you have to do is show up when the meeting room doors open, fill out a speaker card and state your case when your name is called.
Posted by Donald, a resident of another community, on Sep 13, 2010 at 8:55 am
jonma says that bicycles should be banned in the interests of public safety. This flies in the face of facts. From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:
In the United States, motor vehiclerelated injuries are the leading cause of death for people ages 134, and nearly 5 million people sustain injuries that require an emergency department visit. The economic impact is also notable: motor vehicle crashes cost around $230 billion in 2000.
Posted by bob, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:46 pm
What is great about some these eco bike riders is the majority of which drive to Woodside, then bike, makes very little ecological sense. It is also interesting to see how many people that aren't residents complain that Woodside is bike unfriendly, if people ride single file obey road rules then drivers should have no problem, however for every problem bike rider I am sure there is also a problem driver. The major problem is that till the 90's woodside was unknown, now that is known as a biking mecca there will always be problems. The sherrif has a tough job keeping the road safe for everyone.
Posted by bob, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 13, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Big Al nothing elitist about it just asking the ? talk about hiding behind posts you sound like a real tough guy. I have stated this to numerous bike riders they don't seem to want to discuss it with me. Most bike riders don't seem to want to defend their behavior. knock em deqad Big Al
Posted by La Hondan, a resident of another community, on Sep 13, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Oh dear. No wonder there are so many conflicts on our roads with so many angry people traveling on them. Again - please, please consider your (meaning anyone of you angry folks) individual attitude. Whether you are a flippant bicyclist, motorist, pedestrian or equestrian, attitude is EVERYTHING. I've been all 4 of those things and common courtesy is the antidote to the madness expressed on this thread. Or, perhaps, the good old, fairly tarnished Golden Rule. Be courteous, let the other person go first, travel cautiously around skittish horses, don't blow through stop signs (regardless of how many wheels on your vehicle), share like your mother taught you to.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2010 at 5:52 pm
That is why we pay 120 000 a year a cops in California, to fine cyclists, right? who don't fully stop a STOP sign when turning right and where there is a cycling lane like at this particular place where I got a ticket myself. The stupid people who argue here that cyclists should follow the same rules as cars should realize that bike are human powered, and stop and go is not something you do easily with a bike like with a car. Anyway the law need to be changed as it has been proposed before, cyclists should not be required to stop at Stop sign when there is no car, idem when turning right on a stop sign. This cyclist didn't endangered the life of anybody.
I am a cyclist and I will NOT respect STOP SIGNS especially if it bother Woodside residents who are so proud of their fat policeman who are insanely overpaid.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Ok we are going to put cyclists in jail now because they turn against STOP signs, like if the jails were not crowded enough, unbelievable...stupidity of people in US is unfathomable.
For those who support such ridiculous argument they should know that in many states cyclists are not required to stop a STOP signs when there is no cars.
POGO it is not because I don't stop at stop sign that I don't slow down, the speed of a bike don't justify to fully stop, as well as the fact that you don't take much space on the road.
1 STOP signs are for cars not for cyclists
2 more people in US should take their bike, 1 : they would do an immense service to their own health and body 2 they will they will help relieving the finances of the healthcare system that will soon collapse because of diabetes and other obesity related disease. 3 they would understand why STOP signs are not for cyclists.
Wake up America you are sinking in your fat: 30% of obese in this country and it keeps growing at an unabated pace, nowherelse in the world we see that.
Posted by Peter Carpenter, a resident of the Atherton: Lindenwood neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Saharayana states:"STOP signs are for cars not for cyclists"
The law states:21200(a): Bicycle riders are subject to all provisions of the vehicle code applicable to the driver of a motor vehicle.
Perhaps we should start requiring driver's licenses for bicyclists so that they first have to show they that know the rules of the road. I suspect that most of them already have driver's licenses and, like Saharayana, they simply ignore the law - until they get killed or kill someone else. Hopefully the police will get this type of bicyclist off the public roads first.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Yeah that's what you want to spend your tax money for, paying cops to put cyclists in jail ? don't count on it, California is broke and soon most of cities will lay off a big chunk of their police force. See, not talking the direction you are expecting and for good.
By the way as a biker I feel more secure with less cops on the road than more, in Steven Creeks Lake road a cops killed 2 cyclists at once 2 years ago and it was not as a stop sign.
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 19, 2010 at 9:45 pm
First, chill. I never suggested we put bike riders who run stop signs in jail. And this isn't about healthcare finances or the value of exercise. My point is simple - you don't have the integrity to obey the same laws that you insist others must obey. And if you don't have to obey them, why should they?
You see, Saharayana, no one can force you to obey laws - you can keep running stop signs if you'd like. Maybe one day you'll run into someone who thinks JUST LIKE YOU behind the wheel of a speeding SUV and you can debate your philosophy with them from the back of your ambulance. Let us know how that works out for you.
As I said, for those who want to see what the complaints are about, Saharayana would be Exhibit A.
Posted by monique, a resident of another community, on Sep 19, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Wow i am deeply impressed by the bikerhatred shown by some above.. I just read an article that in the USA 95 % of their biggest activity was cooking. No wonder so many people form the USA are so fat. I have no car and live in Europe in a bike country. I believe cycling should be promoted and cyclist should always go for cars when possible. Cops should focus on rapists and thiefs, get priorities!
Posted by La Hondan, a resident of another community, on Sep 20, 2010 at 11:21 am
I'd just like to let Saharayana know, for the record, that I'm not fat and I don't even have a bike. Who knew that it was possible to be fit without the use of a bicycle? In my opinion, you very much need to separate the concept of bicycling for exercise from the purpose of the vehicle code, which does not differentiate between motorists and bicyclists based on the nobility of their purpose in traveling. The purpose of the vehicle code is to keep people traveling as motorists, pedestrians and cyclists safe on our streets. The most fundamental principal of traffic laws is to keep everyone safe, whether you are biking for exercise or driving the entire family in an Escalade to visit your sick grandmother.
The concern that local residents show for the behavior of some bicyclists is due to the disregard for the purpose of the vehicle code and the sense of righteous privilege that some bicyclists (yes, and motorists) display. That righteousness is going to get someone killed. Be humble before the laws of physics, and we will all be ever so much safer.
Posted by Ram Duriseti, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 20, 2010 at 12:39 pm
What concerns me most about this thread is the amount of vitriol hurled in the direction of folks who bike in general. It's the kind of conversation that leads to aggressive and dangerous behavior on the road.
There are people like my wife, my kids, and myself who bike to commute and those who do it as a form of competitive athletics. My family and I bike because it's good for us and good for the community. For us, it's not a race and yet I feel as if we are getting lumped into the larger discussion that has no bearing on commuting cyclists.
Actually it's not getting labeled that concerns me. What I worry about is some angry motorist taking out their displaced frustrations on a family member or community member who is simply using their bike to commute.
As a general note to drivers: bicyclists should definitely slow to a stop and yield to traffic appropriately at a 4-way stop. From commuting on my bike for the last 15 years, I have found that asking a cyclist to always stop and put their foot down at a stop sign leads to chaos at 4 way stops because we don't accelerate as quickly as motorists want and some motorists yell, honk, or threateningly accelerate.
Posted by La Hondan, a resident of another community, on Sep 20, 2010 at 1:45 pm
If all cyclists on this thread displayed your safe, sane and reasonable attitude, there would be no problems. Thanks for your contribution.
Ram & Saharayana: I actually live out here, and I can say, based on a good deal of experience, that there are people who "hate" bicyclists, but they are a minority. Most of us just want to get wear we are trying to go safely. When attitude leads to unpredictable and unsafe behavior on the part of anyone using the road, regardless of the type of vehicle they are piloting, everyone is in danger. It is entirely about attitude, and your attitude is concerning because you have taken such a defensive and self-righteous stance, that you are failing to see that your attitude contributes to unsafe road conditions.
If you read through this thread, and eliminate the more unthinking posts and stick with the more reasonable comments, the latter of which represent the true concern of many local residents, you will find that this is not "drivers vs. bikes", this is selfish, rude and inconsiderate people against people who are trying to be safe and considerate.
Numbers of wheels and means of locomotion are irrelevant, I have found. Consider where you fall on the "attitude-meter" I have described.
Posted by SSJ, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm
I am glad they were cited because they thump and harass and verbally abuse us drivers when we are about to hit when they have violated the stop signs. Where as some Bikers are very law abiding too and courteous but 90% are plain rude and I think are from out of area.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Menlo Park: Downtown neighborhood, on Sep 20, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Editor: Time to give this subject a rest. Just the same old s___
too bad that such interrigent people and be so stupid that they can not or will not read the vehicle code and abide by it. I can see a lot more tickets being issued which such attitudes on the part of bike rides and drivers of vehicle.
This all started on 8/2. This is now mid September. ENOUGH already.
Posted by bob, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 21, 2010 at 11:22 am
Saharayana you may be a slow rider , however the posted speed limit on most roads in Woodside is 25mph, this applies to cars, motorcycles, bikes, skateboards,or anything on wheels. Having lived here for the last 30 years in Woodside I am still amazed by the amount of bike riders who pass me. It goes back to what I said a week or two ago evryone who uses the roads has to follow the rules or this issue will never be solved.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 21, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I am not a slow rider, the rules has to changed they are not appropriate to bikes, period! I will not follow these rules that have been designed by people who have never rode a bike.
By the way it is not the only problem for bikes, to day all traffic light are designed with sensors that detect cars but are unable to detect bikes, so most of the time I have to pass at the red light if there is not a car behind to trigger the sensor.
So see not only the rules are poorly designed but also they are inapplicable
Posted by Peter Carpenter, a resident of the Atherton: Lindenwood neighborhood, on Sep 21, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Saharayana - you have no choice but to follow the rules or be arrested. When you go to court I hope that the prosecution gives the judge all of your statements made on this forum and that you are given a heavy penalty for your total disdain of the law.
Society works because we obey the laws, even if some of them are inconvenient or not to our personal taste. What you describe is simply anarchy - and I think that is why so many posters feel that people who behave like you do should be cited and heavily penalized for their behavior.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 22, 2010 at 10:03 pm
Your absolute love for the rules and laws make me think your are not a fun person to be with, it is not in the human nature to like laws and rules as you do, your narrow minded conception of the world is sad and boring but also inhuman, in the England of the 15th century we were hanging people for robbing a handkerchief, my guess is that you would have been very comfortable living in that time...
Today I did a 3 hours ride and pass a dozen of red light, guess what it was a delicious feeling, [portion deleted].
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 23, 2010 at 4:55 am
You are fortunate that the vast majority of people don't feel the way you do about obeying traffic laws. Life and health are far too important for someone to depend on their luck everytime they run a stop sign.
I'm sure you're very smart and believe that nothing will happen to you because you're so careful. You're really no different than those drivers that you curse who text while driving. It's not a problem for either of you until you accidentallyl cross paths one day.
Like those distracted automobile drivers, you are perfectly free to continue practicing your reckless ways. But one day your luck may run out and you'll find there is a reason for those burdensome stop signs. It will be a extremely painful and unnecessary lesson.
Posted by Saharayana, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Sep 23, 2010 at 9:13 pm
POGO you missed the point, confronted with the hate for cyclists, the uttermost rigid and inflexible thinking (style "the law is the law, shut up!") asides of the refusal to make any effort to understand my point as a cyclist, I have no other choice than derision and cynicism
Posted by Menlo Voter, a resident of the Menlo Park: other neighborhood, on Sep 24, 2010 at 7:29 am
I think everyone gets your "point" - you don't like the law so you choose to ignore it. It's too bad. In my time in law enforcement I had the unpleasant task of scraping people like you up off the road because they ignored traffic laws they didn't like. Hopefully, some police officer won't have the unfortunate task of scraping you off the road because of your anarchistic attitude.
Posted by POGO, a resident of the Woodside: other neighborhood, on Sep 24, 2010 at 10:03 am
I have been riding bicycles and driving cars for about 40 years. I think I have a basic understanding of what happens when I come to an intersection. I get your point but it's far from cynicism. It's pure disdain and defiance. As I said, that's fine with me.
I just hope you don't run into someone driving a car who feels the same way as you. You may find out the hard way that your vehicle is not exempt from the law just because you have a smaller reciprocating engine. It could be an expensive and unnecessary lesson.
Posted by La Hondan, a resident of another community, on Sep 24, 2010 at 10:47 am
One of the most important concepts behind the vehicle code is that these rules exist to insure the safety of all users of public roads (motorists, bicyclists, pedestrians and equestrians.) When anyone expresses disdain for the "rules", they are expressing disdain for those who share the roads with them. Sadly, I don't think the comments of those who share the road with you will change your mind. I have heard that there is a truck out there, a white "dually" type truck, whose driver hates bicyclists and infamously tries to run them off the road. That truck driver appears to have much in common with you, Saharayana - a clear disdain for following the "rules" and a deeply held conviction that he is right, even righteous, in his beliefs. Both of you are very dangerous, to yourselves and to others.
The vehicle code has one purpose - safety. Without those rules that you disdain, everyone would be running into each other. This is not about "The Man" trying to crimp your freedom, it is about your fellow citizens asking you to be respectful of the fact that those same rules protect your safety and theirs. They are asking you to follow the rules so that your movements through our shared public roads will be predictable, so we can avoid running into you and hurting you with our cars and so you will not cause an accident that may hurt you or others.