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Original post made
on Oct 15, 2008
Aside from the fact that abortions should not be a legal option at all, since when should children be allowed to make decisions without consent of their parents?
Parents are legally responsible and liable for everything that their children do, and should not be aware of something as major as this?
Maybe parents shouldn't be notified when kids get arrested? Maybe everyone should be tried as adults since they can make decisions relating to abortion on their own, they are obviously ready to face the death penalty then? Since we can kill the unborn, we should be able to do so with stupid 15 year olds.
>>"This election marks the third time a handful of anti-choice men have ..."<<
How many times can anti-life militant man-hating feminists spew this hate speech?
Think of it this way: Any girl with a good relationship with her parents is going to talk to them. So in those cases, this law is a pointless intrusion into the private life of a family.
Girls who don't have a healthy family situation -- and they are legion -- may not be able to safely get parental permission. Ask any cop or social worker about the abusive families they've seen and what happens to girls. Maybe the pregnant teen has a darn good reason for not telling dear old mom and dad.
No one who cares about the pregnant teens would support this proposition. It's all about pro-lifers whittling away at abortion rights and forcing teenagers to have babies.
Good relationship or not, Mom and Dad are responsible for the minor and should be notified prior. A minor cannot get any other medical treatment without Mom and Dads consent.
Hopefully the pro-lifers can whittle away all of these feminist control points and restore the rights of the unborn.
So, are we saying now that the only time one of these dysfunctional family units gets upset and abuse their kids is if their child gets pregnant? That's not true. I would think this same type of family would go nuts on their child for getting caught stealing, being caught driving drunk, being caught cheating at school, and a whole host of other malicious things kids can get themselves into. Back to the other email on this thread, why is THIS "cardinal sin" being singled out? Answer: Pro-Choice Lobby. It's huge, and the pendulum has swung way too far. We now use abortion as birth control, what a lovely thought.
Based on the jibes at feminists, I'd guess that a good number of the people who post here are misogynists. It's no wonder that you express so little concern for the girls and women who would be maimed or killed by illegal abortions.
We aren't going to outlaw abortions. But we can enact laws that will make them unsafe. And unless/until it's your own daughter that suffers from an illegal abortion, you misogynists you probably will remain in your self-righteous bubble.
I don't know anyone who uses abortion as birth control. No one wants an abortion, but every girl and woman should have the right to a safe abortion. No more women should have to die as a result of botched illegal abortions.
I want the right to safely kill my child when she becomes incovenient as well...especially when she is 14. And when my mother gets to be 80 and inconvenient. It should be safe for me to off her too.
Everyone should have the right to kill safely.
Of course we should enact laws to make them unsafe! what is the matter with you people?
>>"It's no wonder that you express so little concern for the girls and women who would be maimed or killed by illegal abortions. "<<
What about the little girls and boys that are killed in-utero by legal abortions, the feminists seem to have little regard for them? If you can have such little regard for life from the very beginning, it quite easily translates to being capable to having little regard for life the rest of the way.
Prop 4 is just another way of forcing an anti-life control agenda on an already death happy society. And rembember we are talking about MINOR children this proposition is trying to give this "right" to. Their parents are liable for their actions and should have notice if their child is going to continue to make bad decisions. This is the case with other medical decisions already.
Good communication doesn't seem like something that can be legislated. Girls will find ways to have abortions without telling their parents. Centuries of history tell us that girls will do it when they are desperate. Something like prop 4 will just make the most vulnerable (because they don't have good relationships with their parents) at even higher risk.
I don't know what "the feminists" think. No such monolithic group exists. I will tell you that *I* care about the fetuses that are aborted, but my concern is irrelevant. Fact is, as I and terryg both noted, girls and women will continue to have abortions whether they are legal or not. Whether or not we like it, it's going to happen.
The question you need to ask yourself is whether a teenager deserves to die because she resorts to an illegal abortion. If your response to that is any shade of yes, then you are a hypocrite. If your response is no, then you simply cannot support Prop 4.
Abortions need to stay safe and legal. Laws like Prop 4 do not prevent abortions nor improve family communication, they simply force girls to seek out unsafe options. Desperate young women will find people to help them terminate their pregnancy if they are determined, the procedure simply will be less safe and illegal. Please vote "no" on Prop 4.
It's sad to say this, but for some girls, the nice folks at Planned Parenthood are the best source of information, support and healthcare that they will ever get.
I was a typical, young, female, college student, 20yrs.old, in 1967 when I discovered that my birth control had not worked. My mother and I could talk, and I was not a minor, but I sure wasn't a grown-up, either! I was not and am not a "man-hater" (how could I be pregnant, otherwise?)I was dating & in love, but neither of us had finished school, or knew what we wanted to do with our lives. I knew I would not be emotionally strong enough, nor could I afford to, leave school & go through with the pregnancy and put the baby up for adoption. I was so greatful that Calif. had passed a legal abortion bill, which allowed my to get a safe, legal abortion, in a good hospital. I knew girls who had gone to Mexico, prior to Calif.'s law, and one bled to death in San Diego parking lot! I learned my lesson, I was super carful, after that. I am now 61, graduated from college, married someone else, raised one child and own a business. I contribute to the community and to charities. I am a good citizen. I cannot imagine any of this, if I had gone through with that pregnancy. Kids, sometimes, make mistakes...please don't make it a death sentence for them! p.s. women I know, who gave their babies up for adoption, are in more emotional pain, over that choice, than I am, from a legal, safe abortion.
I too was like annonymous, I was young in love and in college. I had a fabulous family who I did tell about my situation and they were in total agreement with me that terminating my pregnancy was my only suitable option. I now have been married for 20 years and have 3 beautiful kids and have been a foster parent to many who have not been so fortunate. Please vote "no" on Proposition 4, it is our right as women to have a choice that is safe and legal.
This discussion seems dominated by a bunch of stuck in the 60s/70s old ladies. Surgical abortions are a very very small part of the abortions performed, and really a niche issue. Kids today can easily obtain RU486 on the internet
and goodbye pregnancy. I don't understand how this archaic issue can still be a touchstone to so many people, unless they are old and out of touch. The genie is out of the bottle. Nobody needs anybodys permission for an abortion today.
There are some rare late trimester issues that have to be addressed surgically, but the vast vast majority of unintended pregnancies are terminated by "better chemistry".
So spare us the "1960s flower child experiences" or the "abortion is murder" screed. Plop plop, fizz, fizz, oh what a relief it is. Problem solved. Now move on over to the Prop 8 debate and forum and argue about something that is relevent. This issue is so over. The technology has advance, back room abortions are like black and white movies, so yesterday.
Im happy you all support planned parenthood. They were born out of eugenics. We need to ethnically cleans this area as best as possible. Go Nazi power.
Despite advances in medicine, there is still a big educational gap in some families and communities. Not everyone has a computer or wise friend or supportive family. Sometimes the person causing an unwanted pregnancy is a family member or family friend. Sometimes the pregnant person does not feel safe within her own family. Not every parent is like Ozzy or Harriet. Please vote No on Prop 4.
Killer wrote: "What about the little girls and boys that are killed in-utero by legal abortions, the feminists seem to have little regard for them?"
This reveals your ignorance. Those are not little girls and boys. They are no different than that hangnail you snipped off your thumb this morning before you sat on it.
By your logic, when a woman has a miscarriage in her first trimester she is a "killer" as well. Ridiculous.
I think it is a weak argument to say that 100 percent of the kids out there do not have a community. Perfect is the enemy of the good. Here in the US, I can assure you that 100% of the kids that get pregnant, have access to a computer a school, with a friend, at the library, and they know how to use it. Like a previous poster wrote, the 1960s and 1970s are so over with. It is really a new age and most of the dogmatic folks on this thread seem really out of touch. Every child that gets pregnant can easily get access to pills that can eliminate the pregnancy. Those of you picturing operating rooms and doctors are behind the times.
>>Killer wrote: "What about the little girls and boys that are killed in-utero by legal abortions, the feminists seem to have little regard for them?"<<
Exactly, if there is no regard for human life at the very beginning there can be demonstrated that there is little regard for it all the way to the end of life.
>>This reveals your ignorance. Those are not little girls and boys. They are no different than that hangnail you snipped off your thumb this morning before you sat on it.<<
This reveals your ignorance, and/or lack of respect for human life, as a hangnail does not have the ability to be born. A hangnail is dead skin, this is insulting. A fertilized egg is a growing and developing person. Go to a high school science class and you can watch videos how babies begin the instant the egg is fertilized, its scientific fact.
By your logic, when a woman has a miscarriage in her first trimester she is a "killer" as well. Ridiculous. <<
Untrue. The woman took no direct action to cause a miscarriage. If my grandmother dies of natural causes, I am not a murderer because I was in the room. Your argument is a weak attempt to justify something terrible. And your logic is horribly flawed. The truth is there is no justification for abortion, just flawed power-plays by angry feminists and ignorant hippies.
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