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Original post made
on Oct 1, 2013
Nature at it's finest. I love it up here.
Don't bug them and they won't bug you.
I give this thread a full day before we see the first post by someone suggesting the most dangerous move of all: keeping a gun in the home. Someone who keeps a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to have the gun used on themselves or a loved one than in self-defense.
Clearly the most dangerous decision one can make.
This sounds dire, but it will only be a matter of time before a local mtn. lion attacks a human. When there are no more deer to pounce on, or dogs or cats, and a mtn. lion gets hungry enough, it will happen. Male mtn. lions establish a fixed territory and keep the others (younger male lions) out, forcing the younger ones to expand outward into residential areas. Because the mtn. lions have no natural predators, their numbers are increasing. My thinking is that controlled, limited hunting of mtn. lions should resume, and I'm no gun guy. Let's not pooh-pooh the problem.
I NEVER underestimate the potential of mountain lions to hunt. An acquaintance in Placer County in 1994 was killed by a mountain lion, and her body found half eaten. Barbara Schoener was her name and she was an amazing 5'11" athletic woman!
Keep seeing the same statistic regarding guns in the first post under different names. That absurd idea follows the same logic as people with cucumbers have a higher probability of self-impalement. The solution is to control their numbers before the predator does what predators do. They hold by the top paws and disembowel with the bottom ones.
*** @Collins presents a fallacy of taking an extremely absurd example of something that will never happen: "When there are no more deer to pounce on, or dogs or cats" The chances of mountain lions running out of deer around here is one in a million. Similar for pets.
*** @Ted wants the numbers: "Consider a 1998 study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery that found that "every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."" Web Link
*** 22 times: "four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides"
That adds up to 22 on my calculator. How many do you get, Ted? That's one legit use and 22 TRAGEDIES.
It's not cucumbers, @Ted, it's math.
*** One mountain lion death in 20 years in California?
How many people killed in their own homes by their own guns in 20 years in California? Thousands?
Let us use the google machine for the question "how many people killed in their own homes by their own guns". Well, lookie, lookie what we find! More studies, using math! And science!
*** "Based on a review of the available scientific data, Dr. (Steven) Lippmann (of the University of Louisville School of Medicine) and co-authors conclude that the dangers of having a gun at home far outweigh the safety benefits. Research shows that access to guns greatly increases the risk of death and firearm-related violence. A gun in the home is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or visitor than an intruder.
The most common cause of deaths occurring at homes where guns are present, by far, is suicide. Many of these self-inflicted gunshot wounds appear to be impulsive acts by people without previous evidence of mental illness.
Guns in the home are also associated with a fivefold increase in the rate of intimate partner homicide, as well as an increased risk of injuries and death to children." Web Link
*** Here's a note for fiscal conservatives: "Firearm-related violence vastly increases expenditures for health care, services for the disabled, insurance, and our criminal justice system," writes Dr. Steven Lippmann of University of Louisville School of Medicine, and colleagues. "The bills are paid by taxpayers and those who buy insurance."
*** "Having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk of death and that of your spouse and children. And it doesn't matter how the guns are stored or what type or how many guns you own.
If you have a gun, everybody in your home is more likely than your non-gun-owning neighbors and their families to die in a gun-related accident, suicide or homicide.
Furthermore, there is no credible evidence that having a gun in your house reduces your risk of being a victim of a crime. Nor does it reduce your risk of being injured during a home break-in.
The health risks of owning a gun are so established and scientifically non-controvertible that the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a policy statement in 2000 recommending that pediatricians urge parents to remove all guns from their homes.
Notice that the recommendation doesn't call for parents to simply lock up their guns. It stresses that the weapons need to be taken out of the house.
Study after study has been conducted on the health risks associated with guns in the home. One of the latest was a meta-review published in 2011 by David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. He examined all the scientific literature to date on the health risks and benefits of gun ownership."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
How's that for a Pinko, Lib, Commie Socialist group trying to take away your guns?!?!?!?!
"The health risks of owning a gun are so established and scientifically non-controvertible that the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a policy statement in 2000 recommending that pediatricians urge parents to remove all guns from their homes."
*** Read it again: "are so established and scientifically non-controvertible"
It's like a segment of our population can't do simple math.
Have a gun in your house, and EVERYTHING says that bad things will happen to you or your family at a far greater ratio than a gun will ever help.
Mountain lions will not cause a tragedy. @dangerahead is absolutely correct:
A gun is far more likely to cause tragedy in the home than any wild animal. Or any intruder.
@Ted "Keep seeing the same statistic regarding guns"
Yes, because it's a documented study from the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery. Like you, I've seen it in numerous places. Is that the start of your Ad hominem attack?
Or are you going to give us some ridiculous numbers about cucumber impalement as you suggested, or fall back on the NRA's fallacious argument about swimming pools being more dangerous?
Live and Let Live - We live in a rural area with lots of wildlife.
Enjoy it. In my 44 years in Ladera I have seen mountain lions twice, crossing our hillside. I still have a muddy paw print on my front deck which I thought was real neat.
For the first three decades we had fawns born in a thicket down the hill and enjoyed watching them jump around in the grass that was taller that they. We had as many as 10 deer resting on the hillside after grazing. There are fewer now. - Lots of other wild life around to watch and enjoy and watch and list the birds that visit during the seasons.
I just had a crazy idea. Do you think we could put GPS trackers on all the mountain lions in the area and set up a cell phone app to warn off joggers and hikers if they get within 100 yards of one?
The story was about mountain lions, a predator. Control habitat, food sources and the cat numbers will be under control. But, with deer numbers increasing due to less predators, the cat numbers will increase and the deadly human events are on the horizon. History always reminds those who believe they are more educated than experience by way of the hard lesson.
If social interaction is needed, go voluntee at a school, play piano for the elderly, feed the hungy, sweep the streets, but to attempt to pontificate off topic is an indicator of a bigger issue.
Guns, abortion, and free speech rights are equal and to be respected. If you don't want one, don't have one but respect and don't tread on those who do! Cucumbers are safest when sliced, btw, that is common knowledge.
Perhaps the mountain lions are a coded metaphor. What has been really seen is the Booger Man. Ask the police to turn in their service revolvers...let me know the results.
The best real time observations were during the Rodney King riots were the armed Asian business owners on TV protecting their businesses...where the unprotected ones went up on flames. The risk was worth the reward.
My apology, abortion is act of Congress, not a Constitutional right, like LIFE is.
yo Ted: you claimed the 22X number was the same as cucumber stabbings - what happened to defending that?
Then you moan about someone going off topic and then you deviate into abortion. You big government types, that want your big government grubby hands in/on my body, and in my bedroom, disgust me.
Danger and Bill Shermer are correct. Keep a gun and 'enjoy' increased risk of family disaster. Mountain Lions are not a danger.
As for "Guns, abortion, and free speech rights are equal and to be respected." No. Not even.
Guns are in the 2nd Amendment. The one that starts with:
a WELL REGULATED militia
Which WELL REGULATED militia do you belong to?
Folks who want to kill wildlife at first sight ought to live in urban areas. if you live in areas bordering wildlands, guess what? You will encounter wildlife. If that bothers you, live elsewhere and let the wildlife and those who enjoy seeing them live in peace.
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