Same-sex marriage benefits society Other Topics, posted by Harry A. Turner, a resident of the Portola Valley: Ladera neighborhood, on Sep 5, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Same-sex couples have a legal right to marry in California. Among the thosands wedded so far are San Mateo County Supervisor Rich Gordon and his partner of nearly 26 years, Dennis McShane, as the Almanac reported on September 3rd. Mr. Gordon stated that they were gratified to be "treated equally fairly as any other couple who gets married in the state." More marriages will follow, at least until November when the proposal to take away this right will go before the voters in Proposition 8. They should choose to keep it.
To understand why consider the extraordinary benefits to society and to the married couple. Marriage is not just a contract between two people; it is a contract that the couple makes with their community, which is why there is always a witness. This is a bountifully fruitful bargain for society. The partners agree to take care of each other so the community doesn't have to. In exchange they are deemed a family, binding them to each other and to the society with a myriad of legal and social ties. Marriage makes people on average, healthier, happier and wealthier. For a couple raising kids, marrying is likelier to make them healthier, happier, and wealthier, too. Marriage is our best line of defense against financial, medical and emotional meltdown. It stabilizes communities by formalizing rsponsibilities and creating kin networks (aunts, grandparents, cousins.) Its absence can be calamitous, whether in inner cities or in gay ghettos.
Because parents want happy children, communities want responsible neighbors, employers want productive workers, and governments want smaller welfare case loads, society has a powerful interest in recognizing and supporting married same-sex couples.
Rather than as an offense to some religion's doctrinal concept of the ideal family, imposed on all of us even though we are not a member of their relgion, the better way to see the legal marriage of Supervisor Gordon and Dennis McShane is that it is the end of something radical. It is the end of a radical experiment in which committed couples must live in a culture without marriage and bonds of mutuality and kinship networks that go with it. It is the end of a shadowy world on the outskirts of the law marked by heightened fear of lonliness or abandonment in a crisis or in old age. It is the end of an uncivilized world, because marriage is the foundation of civilization.
America needs more marraiges, not fewer, and the best way to encourage marriage is to encourage marriage, which is what we are doing now by bringing same-sex couples inside the tent. On the other hand society can be denied its stabilizing benefits and same-sex couples can be sent back to their shadowy world of lesser citizenship by the proponents of Proposition 8.
Let us keep same-sex marriage by voting "no" on Proposition 8. Let us end this radical experiment of discrimination against a significant proportion of society's members. Being in love should facilitate marriage,not preclude it.
Posted by Liberty Lover, a resident of the Menlo Park: University Heights neighborhood, on Sep 5, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Well put, Harry A. Turner. As an unmarried woman who has been in a domestic-partner relationship with a man for more than two decades, I found your analysis about the benefits of marriage to be thought-provoking -- though I'll have to think a little longer about it before I decide whether I agree with ALL of your points.
What I don't have to ponder is whether Prop 8 is worthy of support. It is not. Over the years, I've become quite pessimistic about the growing level of intolerance for "the other" that people in our society -- fueled by the bigotry of certain religions and the ignorant, arrogant self-righteousness that generally prevails in our culture -- display at the polls and in the public forum. If Prop 8 passes, my pessimism will approach hopelessness.
This attempt to take away from gays the right to marry is antithetical to our long-professed belief in "liberty and justice for all," and anything we can do to convince friends, family and colleagues of that, we MUST do.
Posted by Wil Dyer, a resident of the Menlo Park: Linfield Oaks neighborhood, on Sep 6, 2008 at 10:30 am
The ridiculous political charade of homosexual "marriage" remains exposed as the fraud that it is.
No significant percent of homosexuals has "married" in ANY country that permits the oxymoron.
Homosexuals are NOT the same as other people. They seldom form longterm exclusive
relationships, often completely obsess on perversion, and have much elevated rates of
many diseases and social ills. THIS is the reality.
No homosexual "marriage" is recognized by the US Government. We have a
democratically established national definition of marriage as solely between one man and one woman.
No law could ever make even one homosexual relationship into a real marriage. It is of course ludicrous to claim that "equal rights" are involved in trying to disenfranchise others on the legal definition of marriage.
Homosexual "marriage" is a complete FRAUD.
Two unequals will NEVER be equal.
No homosexual relationship shares the reasons for government involvement in real marriage, and the two are VERY different.
No homosexual relationships is the "equal" of a real marriage.
Marriage is indeed very different from any homosexual relationship:
Here are some MAJOR differences between real marriage and any sort of homosexual relationship, especially regarding any governmental involvement:
Like it or not, marriage and family are the basic building block of American Society.
No significant percent of homosexuals has "married" in ANY country that allows
the contrived oxymoron and only about 1.6% of the US population claims to be "GLBT" anyway, so homosexual "marriage" fails on this one!
Children are the usual and natural result of real marriage. No child will EVER be born as a direct result of a homosexual relationship, so homomarriage fails on this one, too!
Having both a mother and father in the home is one of the best statistical predictors of
a child's future success in life. No homosexual relationship can provide this.
Marriage is recognized as moral and necessary by nearly all Americans. Americans overwhelmingly reject homosexual "marriage" and most find homosexual acts to be immoral and damaging.
Posted by Scooter McFly, a resident of the Menlo Park: Linfield Oaks neighborhood, on Sep 6, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Methinks Wil Dyer doeth protest too much, and should be closeted no more. That, or his use of hyperbole is matched only by his ignorance and intolerance -- he sure doesn't speak for this hetero, middle-of-the-road American.
Posted by Martha W., a resident of the Menlo Park: Belle Haven neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2008 at 10:26 am
Mr. Dyer's steaming pile of stereotypes and bigotry just prove that we, as a society, need to do more to protect the equal rights of all of our citizens, inlcuding the right to marriage.
Posted by disgusted, a resident of the Portola Valley: Westridge neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Right on Mr. Dyer!! I am sick and tied of homosexuality being thrown in my face as being "O.K"...it is far from that. From Biblical times it has been recognized as being immoral and wrong for a variety of reasons. Just look at the Aids epidemic. The majority of pedophile offenders ARE Homosexual. Propostion 8 has my vote along with every person I know (family, friends AND neighbors!!) Marriage is between a man and a woman. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION!!!
Posted by Face the music, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm
End of the discussion? Wishful thinking, o ye disgusted one. I find it so interesting that when the bigots and the fearful cite the "evidence" supporting their opinions in matters such as these, so often -- maybe inevitably -- the bible is invoked. I have a number of Christian friends who find it increasingly difficult to defend their faith to skeptics because bible cherry-pickers like "disgusted" give Christianity such a bad name.
Posted by common sense, a resident of the Menlo Park: Sharon Heights neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2008 at 10:20 am
Face the Music is so far off the chart it is not even funny. Homosexuality is NOT normal. Children should never be exposed to the illicit behavior of these type of people. A marriage is between a man and a woman. Always has been, always will be. A child needs the influence of a father and a mother (male/female) not a man pretending to be a woman swiffing around the house light in his loafers or a woman pretending to be a man (butch). The funny thing is, gays always pretend to be one or the other when they are not. THAT is not normal. In a homosexual male whatever you want to call it...one is always feminine. In a lesbian whatever you wnat to call it, one is always masculine. This is WRONG. Proposition 8 will pass...people with values and morals and ethics and common sense will vote that this type of behavior will not be supported by those of us who are doing the right thing in our society. Enough Already!!!!!
Posted by Face the music, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:54 am
common sense, which standards do you apply to define "normal." Is the bible, or any other religion-based tract or dogma, a source of the standards you apply?
Posted by comical, a resident of another community, on Sep 9, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Face the Music...get off your Bible thumping soap box. Common Sense got it right. Nothing was mentioned about religion. YOU are the one fixated on it. The issue is society. Society does not reckognize homosexual marriage. This is the issue. Men under no circumstances should be allowed to "marry" another man. Same goes for women. Marriage IS defined as one man and one woman. I support Prop 8. I also am sick and tired of the rainbow flag being thrown in my face. What these sick people do behind closed doors is one thing. I do not have to put up with it in my face everywhere I turn. YES ON PROPOSITION 8!!
Posted by Judge Not ..., a resident of the Atherton: West of Alameda neighborhood, on Sep 10, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I can't say I see anything Christian in any of these Bible-based diatribes posted above. I don't know what kind of Bible y'all are reading, but you seem to have missed the point of the New Testament entirely.
Posted by Resident, a resident of another community, on Sep 10, 2008 at 7:27 pm
As far as I can see, there is no right to marriage. I see all sorts of rights in the constitution and other places, but no mention of rights to marry.
There are many people we cannot marry.
We cannot marry a parent, an offspring, a sibling, grandparent or grandchild, someone under the age of 16 (or 18), and so on. We also cannot or should not marry someone just to give them citizenship, or into the country, or so that we cannot give evidence against them in a crime, and other ethical reasons why marriage of convenience are just not on.
There are many people we cannot marry for good reason and I do not see anyone complaining about it. Why should special treatment be given to people wanting to "marry" someone of the same gender.
One definition of marry (without being crude) is the coupling of the right sized nut into the right sized bolt. These two very different metal objects are able to unite in such a way that the joining makes a solid method of pairing able to withstand great pressure which they would not be able to do unless they were united correctly. We are all familiar with the usefulness of nuts and bolts coming together to help us in our daily lives and this is an accurate view of marriage. Having two nuts or two bolts just can't do the job. We need one of each to make a strong entity which can be used to function as designed (or evolved). To try and do otherwise would be a waste of time.
Call it domestic partnership, or civil union. But, don't call it marriage because that is just an anomaly.
Posted by Libby, a resident of the Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park neighborhood, on Sep 11, 2008 at 11:56 am
Resident: Thanks for a good laugh over your "nuts and bolts" analogy.
There's no requirement for procreation or the fitting of bolts into nuts in the current definition of marriage, so I don't see why that should be used as an excuse to deny civil rights to anyone.
Consenting adults can do whatever they want with their nuts and bolts, in any combination, and it's got nothing to do with marriage. This country also permits marriage between people who are too old to reproduce or lack the health or desire to fit their nuts and bolts together.
Civil marriage isn't about sex or religion, it's about tax status, the right to inherit property, raise children, make legal or healthcare decisions for an incapacitated spouse, and a long-term commitment between two people.
Trying to make same sex marriage about anything else is just nuts.
Posted by perplexed, a resident of the Portola Valley: Woodside Highlands neighborhood, on Sep 12, 2008 at 8:07 am
Warning: gross Bible story alert:
I see only one issue here - anal sex. Some argue that a man should only marry a woman - and then he can do anal sex on her (there is no prohibition on that in the Bible). However, a man doing anal sex on a man - well that not ok, and you certainly can let them get married. I always remember the Bible story of how the mob wanted Lot to turn over his male guests so they could sodomize them. But he wouldn't. He, then, apparently did the right thing in God's eyes. He offered the mob his daughters instead.
So, can any Christians enlighten me on "God's will" and the morality of a man marrying a woman and doing anal sex on her - but denying the same privileges to a man who prefers to do anal sex on a man?
Posted by Jake, a resident of another community, on Jan 11, 2009 at 11:56 am
Some of you still hav some serious misconceptions about homosexuality and what marriage is. As such, I don't think ANYONE in that position has the right to decide who gets to get married.
Marriage is not religious. If it were, then only Christians would be getting married. But atheists also get married in our society. If you insist on using the religious argument, well then I have one too. There are some religions that actually accept homosexualiy and here in the United States, we can practice whatever religion we want.
Also, someone else mentioned that same sex couples are only interested in perversion and no commitment. This is not true. I am gay and have been with my partner for 4 years so far and I love him more than anyone else. Gay and lesbian people have the sam need for love and commitment as anyone else does.
Besides, even if same sex couples were only about perversion, then my argument is to take a look at the various types of heterosexual unions that we allow. What about people who get divorced and remarry like 6 times? What about murderers, known child molestors and deadbeadt parents? What about people who have had sex previously? The bible especially forbids non-virgin women from marrying.
What about masturbation? Very few Christians condemn it today, but the bible forbids it. Since all sexual sins are equal (assuming homosexuaity is in fact a sin) I think that is only fair to deny ANYONE who commits any of those sexual sins I mentioned above from marrying or having any othe rights.
Posted by Wake up, a resident of the Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle neighborhood, on Apr 28, 2009 at 12:28 pm
I think that it’s wrong for Gays to get married. It’s against Gods way and how he wants up to live. Then God wanted us to be with a man and a woman. Gays have other rights they just want attention, and they think they are special above everyone else.
Gays always fighting for something. Come on just because we don't show attention they think that they can cry. Come on we have been down this road before. Gays can not get married and they should not .A gay person can be cured from liking the same sexual they have to do is start liking the opposite sex.
The root of their sexuality starts at home. Not going to church. Church is a stable and foundation of a person life. That balances life. Gay married couple that have children it can cause the children to be confused, teased, and some even killed women children who grow up in a gay house hold will might perform criminal acts like murder and assault etc. Gays have taken over the church and make them believe that homosexuality is right church is a secrete place to pray and get the word on. Church is God’s house. Gays are taking God’s house and turned it into a circus.
Posted by sherry, a resident of another community, on May 13, 2009 at 6:43 pm
To add to that, you are quite ignorant if you categorize all homosexuals as the same. " Gays...". Every person is different and not all homosexuals are the same. Don't stereotype, or else you'll end up embarassing yourself when you're proven wrong.
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