Bravo.

This is well beyond "normal" partisan issues (like what should our top marginal tax rate be).

The current incarnation of one party is both stoking our worst demons and undermining the pillars of democracy at every turn. Sometimes, the time comes to end a party. It has happened before. The Whigs ended. The No-Nothings and Bull-moose parties ended. The dixiecrats got cast out of the Democrats and joined the Republicans. It's time for them to be cast out again. End this.

The President needs to hear clearly that his hateful rhetoric against the media and Democrats is opposed by all people of good will.

He needs to hear that it encourages violence and hate.

He needs to hear that spreading fear is opposed by all people of good will.

It is time to send a message with our vote.

In Olden days, straight R's.

Occasionally in the last decade, v8te for a D to prevent worse choice. Some 3rd party.

Next week? Straight Dem. Have to send a message to the few classic Republicans left. Do not drink the Koolaid.

Trump still hasn't condemned the bomb assassination attempts in his own words. Disgraceful.

All those so-called conservatives who claimed false flag? Leave the country.

Steve, a lot of people you speak of, and whom you plead with now to send their message, already did that in the last presidential election. It's okay and it's your constitutionally protected right to weigh in on national affairs, but I think this venue, the Weekly's online forum, should be mainly focused on our local issues here in PA, my town, and your town.

And yes, Eric, parties have come and gone, but I think today's problems just show and hi-light how divided and un-united our states really are, even after being narrowed down to our basic two-party system. I don't advocate for another civil war that cost 650,000 American lives, but we have the possibility of at least three separate nations being carved out of our current USA. If you toss in California, which many Californians think could and should stand alone as a separate nation, then that makes four.

I was born and raised in Montana. Anybody from big cities, or coastal cities on either side of the country, or in surrounding areas, don't, and never will know and understand how people in the middle and southern sections of our country think.

Posted by Gale Johnson, a resident of Adobe-Meadow,

>> I think today's problems just show and hi-light how divided and un-united our states really are, even after being narrowed down to our basic two-party system. [...]t we have the possibility of at least three separate nations being carved out of our current USA. If you toss in California, which many Californians think could and should stand alone as a separate nation, then that makes four.

I can't support the idea of splitting up the US-- for one thing, it is exactly what the enemies of freedom want. They must have a reason for promoting disunity in the US, don't you think?

Don't forget that the leader of the "Cal-Exit" movement, Louis Marinelli, moved to Russia after Russia's support for the movement became public knowledge:

Web Link

Web Link

Web Link

Note also the similar "Heart of Texas" movement also supported by Russia (see above reference.)

As for the Republican Party, it should re-found itself as the Lincoln Party, and, eventually, take its old name back. I think there should be room for a fiscally conservative socially liberal pragmatic party.

I don't like Trump, he is a performer and publicity seeker. The media love to hate him and continually show clips to show his biggest faults.

However, another mass shooting is not his fault since mass shootings are so common that we tend to forget them all, sadly. I seem to remember a couple of other church shootings and at least one under Obama's watch. The postal attacks were not the first time that this has happened.

When these things have happened in the past long before the Trump era, the leader of the country has not been blamed. Blame the NRA, blame mental illness, blame lax gun laws, but don't stop voting for the best candidate in your estimation just to send a message to Trump. He won't get the message!

These are sad and serious times. If you want to post, please post on the topic of the two tragedies and how you wish we should respond.

I was writing about the pipe bombs that were sent by a Trump supporter to people and media Trump continually trashes. Yes I do blame him for the heated rhetoric and want to send a message.

As I was finishing the blog the Squirrel Hill killing took place and i added my thoughts. Resident is correct that there have been mass shootings before Trump but blaming Trump for the atmosphere of hate that triggered the pipe bombs seems right to me.

Deleted--it led to an unproductive back and forth. I am sure Eric saw your original post and can respond if he wishes.

If you wish to comment on the topic of the blog--either the pipe bombs delivered or Squirrel Hill killings and have a message to send, please do.

Eric's point and George Will and Tom Friedman's point is that some events call for people to change parties (at least currently). That is what the blog addresses.

Jewish people are perhaps the most gifted people in the world. I think this is because they study more and consistently in school. But, in America we are all blending now. (portion deleted.) Trump is an experienced business person who makes deals in the real estate market. Construction workers, unstable deals, and a constellation of problems. He must play hardball even with "useful fools."
George Drysdale social studies teacher and land economist

Trump has been dog whistling sand inciting before he even ran for president. Don't forget that he was the chief birther, and still maintains that President Obama was born in Kenya. His inciting against the media, against women who claimed sexual abuse by him or his court nominees are frightening. remember how he described the white supremacists and neo Nazis in the Charlottesville tragedy:"They are basically good guys'. his incitement against undocumented aliens is chilling.

His base listens to him carefully, and acts accordingly. True was not directly involved in the Pittsburgh horror, but he is very much capable, through his non stop incitement against those he feels are against him, and what they believe in.

We are now where Germany had been in 1933-34-35. My parents were holocaust survivors Very scary times, and we know who is responsible.

My parents were holocaust survivors who lost their entire families in the Nazi death camps, and had my parents been alive now, they would be absolutely horrified at what has been going on since Trump became president.

Stop telling us he is just another politicians who likes to make real estate deals, he is anything but another politician.

I'm a Reagan Democrat. Voted for ghwbush, once. Wanted McCain in 2000.

I'm sooooo done. Never again, even at the local level.

Would consider a new moderate party.

"Trump is an experienced business person who makes deals in the real estate market. Construction workers, unstable deals, and a constellation of problems. He must play hardball even with "useful fools."

Yes, very useful, those fools.

Grow up, Steve.

You're actually literally blaming this directly on Trump and think that voting Democratic is somehow going to fix things as if both sides aren't responsible for division.

One of the most vapid blog posts I've ever seen on here.

Such partisan fervor.

It was Trump who handed classified information over to Russian operatives in a “closed meeting" in the Oval Office.

It was Trump who told lie-after-lie to your fellow citizens.

It was Trump who insulted our allies, publicly praised our enemies, and locked traumatized children in cages.

It was Trump who persisted in demonizing his critics, even threatening to have them imprisoned.

It was Trump who sided with Putin instead of his own country, and his own intelligence community.

It was Trump who encouraged violence, and offered to pay the legal fees of those who engage in it.

It was Trump who specifically targeted the evil Democrats and fake news outlets �" the very people who have received pipe-bombs.

So the question to Republicans is :Are you going to remain silent NOW?

Are you going to continue to maintain your ignorant, self-serving silence as the violent behavior of your president escalates �" as it assuredly will?

Are you going to continue to sit on your hands, closed-mouth and cowering, as Trump persists in spewing the hateful rhetoric that pits citizen against citizen, and divides us as a nation?

Are you going to continue to invoke your right to remain silent as civil discourse continues to be eroded by a president who is so obviously incapable of civility?

Are you going to continue to clasp your hands over your mouths as your president spreads paranoia and fear over a “caravan of migrants" instead of the present danger posed by a serial bomber?

Are you going to continue to keep your mouths firmly shut �" only to open them in defense of a president who is ignoring the clear threat to those who have been targeted with pipe-bombs, and is instead posing as the pitiable victim of negative media publicity?

The pipe bomb attacks and the Pittsburgh massacre were our Kristallnacht. We know who was responsible for the German Kristallnacht back in 1938. Are Republicans still going to claim that Trump isn't responsible for ours?

^^^fine specimen of Trump Derangement Syndrome

For God's sake and for all of us, please calm down, mauricio.

Resident and Mauricio

You have both had your say. I do not want endless back and forth between two posters so please stop now.

And resident please stop with the put downs. if you are asking for calm, model it yourself.

On the content arguments i agree with Mauricio.

Just to clarify, I was not replying to, nor addressing "Resident", and I was not having any back and forth with him/her, or any other poster. I actually hadn't read any of his/her posts.

My post was aimed solely at Republicans and Independents who generally do not vote for Democrats, in the hope they will now because this is a national emergency and the entire nation is in grave danger.

I am very sorry to read your comments Mr.Levy.

My take away from your post is, you made an emotional post.

If someone can only blame the other side for all the problems we have, it is justified to say that you are a partisan and you have blinders on, IMHO.

No, I can not and will not support one party only.

Each candidate has to earn my vote and I try to vote for who I believe is the best candidate.

"If someone can only blame the other side for all the problems we have"

What? That's a really weak attempt at re-framing this thread. Just about the opposite of:

"...a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence"

Call yourself an "independent" voter all you wish, but you are not fooling anyone. I'm sorry you cannot stick to the topic of "...a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence"

And "you made an emotional post" as a response to the largest atrocity against Jewish Americans in our great country's history? Very, very weak.

Sad.

I will say that since the goal of both sides is to gain a Senate or House majority, we are actually voting for the Party, and not the Candidate. It's the way Congress votes that matters. That's the nature of the beast. The political game we play is one of polarization.

@Gale Johnson

"I was born and raised in Montana. Anybody from big cities, or coastal cities on either side of the country, or in surrounding areas, don't, and never will know and understand how people in the middle and southern sections of our country think."

While I have different views from yours on a number of topics, I tend to agree with you on this. I was born and raised in Shelby, not far from where you grew up. My subscription to the Shelby Promoter has never lapsed since then, following me to Gabon, Massachusetts, Vietnam, Indonesia and, since 1975, to Palo Alto. So I've kept in touch with my rural Montana origins even as my own experiences and world-view ranged farther and farther afield.

Senator Jon Tester (D) farms in Big Sandy, not far from where my grandparents homesteaded a century ago. I think he understands Montanans pretty well and hope that despite Trump's dominance in the "Golden Triangle" two years ago he'll be able to grab a third term next week. Montanans haven't typically gone for ideology in their politics. Ticket splitting has been fairly common (not sure if that still applies), and a capable governor, whether D or R, typically gets a second term out of appreciation for a job well done. The tone has changed, though, in recent years, with big infusions of "dark money" from out of state flowing to a state where campaigns are an inexpensive gamble to put some chips down on.

Among the east coast urban elites that I believe really don't understand our state, I would place our president, who condescendingly awards subsidies to farmers, who have a sophisticated understanding of the relationship between their well-being and sales to Asia, to partially make up for the damage caused by his tariffs. And I wonder how many Montanans appreciate being linked in the nation's mind to the body-slamming of a reporter by Greg Gianforte (the Republican candidate for Congress)

To Steve's point: I've been supporting (with small donations) the campaigns of John Tester (D) for Senate and Kathleen Williams (D) for Congress since the campaigns began in hopes that Montana might choose Montana candidates (not transplanted east coast entrepreneurs) despite the depressed standing of the Democratic party in the state in the Age of Trump.

I wonder if any reader is aware that back in October 1958, a Jewish synagogue was bombed in Atlanta, Georgia.

Here are the comments of the then Mayor of Atlanta:


“My friends, here you see the end result of bigotry and intolerance, and whether we like it or not, those practicing rabble-rousing and demagoguery are the godfathers of the cross burners and the dynamiters."

�"William B. Hartsfield, mayor of Atlanta, in the wake of the bombing of the Hebrew Benevolent Congregation Temple, a Reform Jewish congregation, on October 12, 1958.

@we ALL know that,

By this very post from Mr. Levy, and yours, by saying that only the Republican Party or Trump is at fault with all that is wrong in our country is just as hateful as what you are accusing them of.

@we all know that,
you said,
"I'm sorry you cannot stick to the topic of "...a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence""

This entire thread for the most is nothing but hateful.

Do you think any sane person would vote for Maxine Waters if she was in your district? Or are you just going to say she is fine and normal and no hate in her so just vote straight D on the ticket?

People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

It is not about party, it is about persons.

I and others do see the president as spewing hateful language on a regular basis.

I and others on this post are joining George Will, John Kasich, Tom Friedman, Irving Kristol and others in saying time to send the president a message.

This president seems to recognize only power

My only way to send a message of power right now is to support Democrats to take back the house. Others including a growing number of Republicans are saying the same.

That is the theme of the blog--now is the time to send a message.

First, she tries to re-frame the thread.

Then the whataboutism: "Do you think any sane person would vote for Maxine Waters"

Please, go open a new thread on Congresswoman Waters and the recognition by Americans who have chosen her over republicans for 28 years. Again, I'm sorry you are unable to "...stick to the topic of "...a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence"

They're burying victims of a mass atrocity today, and you bring up a congresswoman from 400 miles away.

Please.

I do not support Republicans and do not support Democrats who vote as Republicans!

On topic: from the time of the Nixon administration until George W. Bush, I always voted for the best individual candidate for the job, Republican or Democrat. Reagan, despite his dog-whistles and pro-super-rich tendencies, didn't attack the rule of law in public.

Today, after everything that has happened, Donald Trump stated that the 14th Amendment can be ended " ... with an act of Congress. But now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order." Trump simply doesn't accept the rule of law. Trump has succeeded in removing most Republican opposition to his one-man rule and silencing the rest. -While I still have a vote-, I'm voting only for Democrats this election. I think that is the most effective way for the 53% or 57% of Americans/like voters/etc who DON'T APPROVE.

For those who are still Republicans yet who think that Trump is kidding-- you are wrong. While he does seem to think this is all some kind of game, yes, he clearly does believe in the rule of Trump, not the rule of law. You are kidding yourselves if you don't believe him.

-While I still have a vote-, I'm voting only for Democrats this election.

Why should anyone vote Democratic? All the hate filled rhetoric I have seen in the Bay Area has come from the Democrats and their supporters. Just look at the anti-Israel bias that the left here regularly engages in, the attacks by Antifa on innocent people. Conservatives and Republicans have long been ardent supporters of Israel and the Jewish Community and to suggest otherwise is dishonest and disingenuous.


Jim Neal
Modesto, Ca
(Formerly Old Mountain View)

Restoring our Constitutional Republic is my main concern. The Supreme Court is positioned to moderate the transition. IMHO, fiscally conservative socially liberal sounds like a fair litmus test for representatives who would further that cause. There is a faction of the Republican Party which fits the mold. The Republican Liberty Caucus. Web Link Vote for the candidates who will help create your choice of government. If you want Socialism, it's mostly the Democrats. If you want a Constitutional Republic, Republicans are generally the best choice.

"Just look at the anti-Israel bias that the left here regularly engages in"

What bias?

Does it compare to the mess Bush/Cheney made in the middle east, making Iran stronger and thus a tougher opponent for the great state of Israel?

Also - ask Pence what the conditions of Israel must be for his rapture...

Pence scares me more than Trump. Straight D's for me until both are gone.

To Jim Neal

This is not about Israel. This is about a Trump supporting pipe bomber targeting people who are regularly demonized by Trump.

This is also about a President who said there were good people standing with Nazis in Charlottesville chanting anti-Semitic trash.

And while not about the Republican party it is about a president who accused Democrats of funding the caravan and stood MUTE while right wing bigots suggested that a Jew George Soros was funding the effort.

It is time to send a message that this behavior is inappropriate for anyone but especially for our president,

"It is time to send a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence."

This is so ironic coming from the the left as I have heard nothing but hate-filled rhetoric from Democrats since Trump took office. There is zero tolerance for conservative voices, they're constantly being drowned out not only by the angry liberals but by the media who bashes Trump, his staff, and his policies non-stop. There is no attempt at balance in reporting. It's funny to hear Trump being blamed for pipe bombs but nobody's talking about Maxine Waters encouraging harassment of all Trump supporters, Cory Booker spouting "get in their faces" and Hilary Clinton stating that Democrats can no longer be civil (as if they were civil before?). And we didn't hear you decrying the violence when Steve Scalise was shot.

"This is also about a President who said there were good people standing with Nazis in Charlottesville chanting anti-Semitic trash."

Another example of "fake news" as that is a mis-characterization of what he said and of what transpired. There were good people standing AMONG others at a huge rally where a few might have been chanting anti-semitic trash. Because there were some bad eggs at the rally doesn't mean that there were no good people there. Most were well behaved and Antifa caused most of the violence.

Total hypocrisy.

And don't forget that Obama (and Michelle) run around on the circuit bashing Trump and inciting hate towards him and his supporters. This is something that no past President has ever done re their predecessor (in fact we've never seen a past President on the circuit at all). But no surprise since Obama spent most of his Presidency bashing Republicans and blaming Bush for all unresolved problems. Pot, let's not call the kettle black...

It sickens me that when President Trump visited Pittsburgh he was met by protesters holding signs saying "you're not welcome". Then CNN tries to spin it as if no GOP leaders wanted to join him, a total fake news headline.
The effect of mainstream propaganda on the masses is tragic. If anything, Obama displayed far more anti-semitism, Trump has never said a single thing against Jews (or blacks for that matter). The made-up MSM characterizations and the amount of people who believe them is staggering.

Trump went to Pittsburgh and was criticized.

If he hadn't gone, there would have been others who would have criticized him.

There are those who love to hate him and the media is definitely driving this hate.

"Then CNN tries to spin it as if no GOP leaders wanted to join him"

GOP leadership *told* Trump they wouldn't accompany him, because they were all asked not to go during the funerals, out of respect. Trump went anyway.

You call it fake news - prove it by linking to a picture of Trump with Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan. Good luck with that.

Media doesn't drive hatred of Trump - he does that with his words and tweets. And lies like the post above about 'fake news' help quite a bit.

Time to send a message. Six days.

its obvious there are a lot of trump haters in this area. Unfortunately their hatred of trump leads to obvious ranting and blaming trump for everything bad that happens. Time to grow up and get over your childish behavior. Both parties behave badly and both are equally at fault.

Posted by I hate trump , a resident of Castro City,

>> Both parties behave badly and both are equally at fault.

Actually, no, both parties are not equally at fault. And, the "mainstream media", in attempting to be "fair", have allowed far-right sources and media to pull the "average" far to the right. This has been going on for at least the last four years.

Web Link

Web Link

Points to: cyber.harvard.edu node/99982

""Actually, no, both parties are not equally at fault."

Your kidding. Several democrat leaders have advocated violence against against individuals and groups. Your link to polarization is irrelevant. Says nothing about behaving badly. As Alan Dershowitz has pointed out there are far right and far left anti-semetic groups. Because you hate trump you blame him for advocating violence but ignore that the democrat leaders have also advocated violence.

"Because you hate trump you blame him for advocating violence"

Yes. Leftists forced Trump to say: "If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, I'll pay the legal fees"

Funny how the all-powerful lefties are able to force Trump to say that, no?

Who knew is was all the lib's fault? So SAD!

Time to send a message. Six days.

Okay, you have all had your say. Time to stop this back and forth.
thanks

This is what the blog is about.

Many people on the blog have defended Trump and many have not.

We have only one president and this blog is about his rhetoric. If there are new voices or perspectives on this please post.

From my first post

"The President needs to hear clearly that his hateful rhetoric against the media and Democrats is opposed by all people of good will.

He needs to hear that it encourages violence and hate.

He needs to hear that spreading fear is opposed by all people of good will.

It is time to send a message with our vote."

Thank you Mauricio for your post! Particularly your reference to Kristallnacht.

The single most frightening thing to me is the lack of historical perspective and knowledge.

Are we doomed to repeat our mistakes?

First Steve, I wonder how you believe any "message" will result, given that (quoth Sup. Simitian) this area is "a bubble, in a bubble, in a bubble." How many people reading this, or even their friends, really ever considered voting otherwise?

2nd, could you please do more to rein-in those repetitive commenters above, whose reflexive put-downs of contributions they don't like add little? (They also unwittingly demonstrate divisiveness in action, by trying *not* to understand differing views, just shout them down.)

3rd, why not step back from your assumptions to examine context: why writers blame Trump & co. for recent outrages by deranged individuals, yet didn't (for example) blame the Bernie Sanders camp when his supporter James Hodgkinson shot at senators? And Jim Neal cited the violence perpetrated against campus speakers and bystanders by groups who simply don't like what's being said, absurdly dubbing themselves "anti-fascist" as they mimic the very tactics of the NSDAP.

An observer said recently, "Trump didn't cause division, division caused Trump -- and if you don't realize that, you're part of the problem."

"Trump didn't cause division, division caused Trump" -- Well at least this "both sides (have very fine people)" admits it's a divided mess with Trump as leader of the dividers.

re: messages - shear numbers send a message. I admit most right wingers want to tell Californians that their vote is wasted, but you can do better than that.

SEND A MESSAGE - VOTE!

From the blog-- I was asking folks here who want to send a message to reach out to their friends in swing districts.



"We all must have families and friends outside the Bay Area who live in competitive districts.

Who knows people in the Modesto area or in Irvine, Costa Mesa and other parts of Orange and San Diego county--in competitive districts in New Jersey, Florida, North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Iowa.

Reach our and encourage them to send a message with their vote."

As to all this "other people said bad things", so what. You cannot be arguing that this absolves Trump or or relevant to swing district races. And we have only 1 president who virtually every day spreads hate and blame.

deleted

No one has mentioned statements about immigration in this thread and that discussion is another thread if you want to start it.

@stephen levy- you're telling us to vote Democrat because “It is time to send a message against hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence.

And then, in response to others stating that the Democrats are also spewing hate filled rhetoric, you say “As to all this "other people said bad things", so what.". So what?? Why the heck should we vote for Democrats when they behave just as bad (or worse) than the Republicans? Pretty hard to follow your logic.

"Pretty hard to follow your logic."

Really? That's not a trail of bread crumbs, or an old deer path - Steve Levy lays it out for you:

"You cannot be arguing that this absolves Trump or .. relevant to swing district races. And we have only 1 president who virtually every day spreads hate and blame."

The Buck Stops Here - we have one president, and everyday that he tweets, or every time Trump wanders off the script his handlers put on the teleprompter, he proves the point. Y'all got on the previous President for a tan suit, yet you claim to not hear Trumpian dog whistles? ("I'm a nationalist") And witness the tacit approval of the party we used to call the Family Values party?

Thank you, Steve. I happen to be among the last generation that narrowly escaped Nazi Germany during the end of the '30s. My parents saw what was coming and we fled to the US. The lesson? If we don't learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

Like you, I believe that the outcome of this November election will be far more critical to the well-being of Democracy in the US, perhaps more much than that of prior 'typical' mid-term elections.

I can only urge each and every US citizen to vote like their life depended on it.

People need to lighten up with the Kristallnacht/Hitler analogies. For all the political divisions and divisiveness from the top that characterizes current US politics, this is nothing like 1930's Germany. The comparison is offensive. Kristallnacht was encouraged and perhaps organized by German government officialdom. Every US political and cultural figure who commented on the Pittsburgh shooting condemned it and antisemitism in unequivocal terms. This includes Trump who whatever else he may be and however terrible and intemperate his language is manifestly no Hitler-style antisemite.

It's fair and even necessary to condemn Trumps verbal style. It certainly is possible (though far from provable) that it incites the kooks among us. But the fact is there just aren't very many of these kooks and they have virtually no support among the populace. THey have NO political support. They got 200 out of 300million+ to march around with torches in Virginia and this year couldn't muster a dozen for a Washington rally.

No sane person likes the divisiveness that Trump sows, but to pretend that we're on the verge of storm troopers busting down Jewish doors cheapens and diminishes the effectiveness of legitimate condemnation of Trump's language. Trump acts crazy and we don't advance the cause of ridding ourselves of Trumpism by talking even crazier.

I have been a registered Republican all of my life and I am disgusted with the Party's complicity in Trump's racism, xenophobia and dishonesty.

I just completed my mail in ballot and I did not vote for a single Republican candidate.

@Leah - "People need to lighten up..."

Please ask the family of Heather Heyer.

Or ask any of the dozen targets attacked a week ago in the largest political assassination attempt in US history (a president, a vice president, a secretary of state, an attorney general, several senators, a chair of the political opposition party, and members of the media.)

Please put down your Koolaid and read that list again, slowly:

- president
- vice president
- secretary of state
- attorney general
- senators
- chair of the political opposition party
- members of the media

What will the fringe do when Trump tweets out more garbage next Wednesday?

Call friends and relatives in other areas and ask them to VOTE.

@Chris

deleted

actually the way it works is I get to say what I meant, you do not get to say what I meant. You can argue with my position but you do not get to make up something I did not say. The post is pretty clear. It expressed sadness and support for the victims in Squirrel Hill and was in reaction to the pipe bombs from a Trump supporter against people Trump has continually trashed and blamed including right before the pipe bombs were delivered--the media and Democrats.

If you have strong feelings on immigration (many do) start your own thread on the Town Square.

Hi, Leah. See this?

Web Link

You may also wish to read Phillip Roth's novel, THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA. Fiction? Yet, this is how Fascism begins. The absolute permanent control of our government's three branches by the minority party. Depending on how this election turns out, I believe you might just kiss Democracy good-bye.

"People need to lighten up with the Kristallnacht/Hitler analogies.". . ."this is nothing like 1930's Germany. The comparison is offensive." I gather that you are suggesting that it can't and won't "happen here!"

Yes, of course, having been there and watched it unfold, perhaps I am over-reacting.

And I do apologize for having offended you.

Posted by Leah, a resident of Barron Park

>> People need to lighten up with the Kristallnacht/Hitler analogies. For all the political divisions and divisiveness from the top that characterizes current US politics, this is nothing like 1930's Germany.

Leah,

I think the situation is much more serious than you do. This article might help explain:

Web Link

Leah. Let's wait to talk Wednesday morning.

And then after Mueller releases his report.

And the market crash this January.

It may take months, but stars will line up for one side to be gravely offended.

I am surprised to see people double down on the "Fascist under every bed" hysteria. To be sure, the Pittsburgh slaughter makes most of us emotionally fraught and more fragile than usual. But we are supposed to be the rational ones. It's the other side that exaggerates and fulminates about political enemies.

The republicans are wrong on just about every issue. And it is quite true that they enjoy structural advantages in the current system. Right now they control two branches of government and have more influence on the Supreme Court than they have in a long while. (N.b. The same was true of the Democrats in 2008, when many said they had a "lock" on the Electoral College.) But whatever you think of the 45% plus of our fellow citizens who are or vote for republicans...they're not budding Fascists - not even close. And to suggest openly that they are as some are doing here is no way to gain the support of persuadables in their ranks. Believe it or not, people are offended when you call them Nazis. And doing so is no way to calm the overheated political atmosphere. Trump acting crazy isn't license for us to do the same. Again, we're supposed to be the rational thinkers.

Trump constantly attempts to gain political advantage by casting his opponents as the scary irredeemable "other". No one wins if we do the same.

The 45% are not fascists but in my opinion Trump is a full blown fascist and he is a clear and present danger to our democracy.

Definition of fascism
A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

@Peter carpenter -oh please! Trump may be bombastic but he is none of the things you're accusing him of and your dramatic accusations and attempts at fearmongering are exactly what prompts people to support him.

Forcible suppression of opposition? You mean like the liberal riots on college campuses that prohibited conservative speakers from appearing? Or do you mean the censorship of conservative thought such as all the conservative social media pages that have been removed (under the auspices of “fake news" - as determined by the liberals). Or did you mean the one-sided liberal biased media reports? You're right that there is a threat to our democracy but it is not the right that's endangering our freedom. The threat comes from the left. And if they have their way we will soon be borderless and that will be our “new beginning" and the end to the democracy that we once knew.

"attempts at fearmongering are exactly what prompts people to support him"

Fearmongering? "The threat comes from the left" ???

Perhaps you should focus on recent news - Trump riles up his nationalist far right base as much as he can. Results?

The largest political assassination attempt in US history:

- presidents
- vice president
- CIA director
- secretary of state
- attorney general
- senators
- chair of the political opposition party
- members of the media


You have three choices:
- falsely claim that this event had nothing to do with Trump
- continue your whataboutism filled with lies ("liberal riots"???)
- Vote against his bombastic screeds and anyone who supports it; send a message that you want civility and are against ALL hate filled rhetoric that encourages violence.

Posted by Leah, a resident of Barron Park,

>> I am surprised to see people double down on the "Fascist under every bed" hysteria.

Not under every bed. But, powerful people who sleep in very important beds.

>> It's the other side that exaggerates and fulminates about political enemies.

The interaction with the far-right that is extremely troubling:

Web Link

>> And to suggest openly that they are as some are doing here is no way to gain the support of persuadables in their ranks. Believe it or not, people are offended when you call them Nazis.

I think we need to alert the non-Nazi persuadables who are supporters of the current Republican party of the danger we, and they, are in. Are you familiar with the Max Frisch play "The Firebugs"? Schmitz and Eisenring are in the house.

No one argues that the sad band of far right losers who imagine themselves the reincarnation of the Third Reich don't take succor from Trump's more incendiary tweets. No one argues that Trump's promiscuous rhetoric doesn't feed the delusions of grandeur that these crazies feel when they parade around in their silly uniforms. Crazies are like that: the guy who shot that republican congress member loved Bernie Sanders and Rachael Maddow.

The difference I have with some of the more excitable posters here is on the extent of influence that Nazis have and the danger they pose to our country. The Nazis "national" gathering in Charlottesville attracted all of 200 tiki torch marchers. This year a big Nazi protest in Washington DC couldn't field a dozen demonstrators. The vile Jew hater in Pittsburgh was a pathetic loner, not a member of some Nazi storm trooper organization. These loons can do a lot of harm, particularly when armed with military grade firearms and explosives (which we should control)....but they're not the harbinger of massive parades with swastika emblazoned flags.

In 1933, the far right was richly represented on German college campuses particularly among the faculty. Corporate executives were big supporters of the Nazis as well. As bad as our politics have become, we aren't living in 1930's Germany and the Republicans - as wrong as they are on policy - aren't Nazis. You find more Communists than Republicans on many college faculties, and Hitler would have drooled over the kind of support that tech firms give Democrats.

The delusions of victimhood on the part of those comparing contemporary America to Hitler's Germany are but the mirror image of the delusions of grandeur of the piss-ant Nazis mentioned above. Both are equally out of touch with reality and each feeds the irrationality of the other. If you want to make the Nazis happy, keep worrying publicly that they're about to take over the government and the country.

There are things our side can do to make our politics less toxic. Calling half the country Nazis isn't one of them.

Leah - you freely admit that Trump speaks to white supremacists in your opening sentence, and then you fall for the memes and what about-isms.

Please let me know who called "half the country Nazis" and then they can tell you what Trump calls half the country.

Or...

You can denounce Trump's hateful rhetoric without the what about-isms.

Your call.

One sentence on Trump and paragraphs on leftests makes one think: "doth protest too much..."

There is plenty of criticism of Trump on this thread, and on others - virtually all of which I agree with. For me, this isn't a contest of who is worse - trump or the left. Trump is worse. Why do some insist on counting the number of words in each
post denouncing Trump as some sort of loyalty test?

If people had read the entire thread and my contributions, I hope they'd see I was making what should be a simple point: the US isn't on the verge of becoming something akin to 1930's Germany, and people who are making that point - or suggesting it with references to Kristallnacht, etc. have a blinkered view of America and of Republicans - who are very bad for the country but are not Nazis. Additionally they are playing to the fantasies of American Nazis who think they are much more relevant and important than they are. There are a lot of very bad things that can happen in this country as a consequence of the current political environment. Nazi control of the government or the country isn't one of them.

I want our side - whom I imagine (correctly I hope) to be the thinking side to take the lead in rejecting the ridiculous and dangerous name calling style of politics of which Trump is the leading practitioner. Those of you who want to turn everything into a contest of who is worse - Trump or the Left - while making direct allusions to our opponents being Nazis have already lost the argument to Trump. In our country, the first side to call "Nazi" almost always loses. That's a shame for those of us who think it's vital to rid country of Trump and Trumpism; it serves no purpose other than to satisfy the collective id of those who engage in it.

"Leah - you freely admit that Trump speaks to white supremacists in your opening sentence..."

- suddenly morphs to -

"Why do some insist on counting the number of words in each
post..."

Yes, I agree with: she doth protest too much.

Leah doesn't think speaking out via voting, as well as supporting the message with family and friends is as important as pointing out Godwin, which was once upon a time a relevant thought.

Just no longer, in the days of Trump.

It being election day, seems appropriate to share selected wisdom from the great Molly Ivins:

- “When politicians start talking about large groups of their fellow Americans as 'enemies,' it's time for a quiet stir of alertness. Polarizing people is a good way to win an election, and also a good way to wreck a country."

- “I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag."

RIP, Ms Molly.

Posted by we ALL know that, a resident of Greendell/Walnut Grove

>> "- “I prefer [... etc]""

Found that, unsourced, on wikiquote. Likewise, this one:

"On the Failure of Democracy: “One reason I really like living in a democracy is that the citizens get what they want. I know you've all noticed the widespread grassroots movement surging with people rallying behind banners that say, ‘We want banks and stockbrokers to merge,' ‘We love this system of campaign financing,' ‘We want dirtier air and dirtier water,' ‘We demand tax breaks for the rich,' ‘We want fewer services for the rest of us,' ‘Don't fix our schools,' ‘More downsizing,' and ‘Tax breaks for corporations moving to Mexico.'"

Anyone with a college specialty in Ivins could feel good about wikifying (sp?) Ivins quotations.

Well done, America. You voted.


Senate = Democrats had a +9 million votes, net -3 seats (will win ~23-24 of 35 contested seats)

House = Democrats had a +12 million votes, about +35 seats (tbd)

Gov = Democrats +7

Statehouses = Democrats +350 seats (aprox)

Trifectas = = Democrats add 7 trifectas

Trifectas = = Democrats add 7 trifectas

Pardon - now looks like 6

Protests tonight.As American as protest, as American as fighting the redcoats, as American as throwing as throwing tea in the harbor to protest tax cuts for corporations. Speak your mind, America.

Many local free speech events TONIGHT. Make you voice heard, whatever side you may be 'on'.

Web Link


Los Altos.
Palo Alto. (1400+ rsvp)
PV.
Redwood City.
San Mateo. (900+ rsvp)


As American as...

Apple Pie.

As much as I do not like some of the stuff Trump says or his temperament, I cannot vote for a party that wants the government to grow and expand. I see no good in government growing bigger and expanding more and more into our lives. Lincoln's original words and problems with slavery was, in brief, "you work, I eat". That's always been the motto of the Democratic. Take from someone that produces to give to someone else. It's theft. There's no other way to put it. Big government takes, and takes, and takes. Not good. I'll stick with the Orange Man.

"I cannot vote for a party that wants the government to grow and expand"

The GOP will be sad to hear you no longer will be voting for them.

It was Reagan that promised to eliminate the Department of Education, and ended up doubling its budget. It was also Reagan that tripled the national debt.

It was Dick Cheney who said: "Reagan taught us deficits don't matter"

It was Bush the First who continued Reagan's rising deficit. And Bush the Lessor created Medicare part D, completely unfunded. His tax cuts were completely unfunded. His war was completely unfunded, as well as unfounded. Bush the Lessor doubled the national debt.

Which brings us to Trump who gave corporations the tax cut that will cost us trillions in debt.

Your honesty in telling the GOP to shove it ii refreshing. Thank you for supporting America.

Message sent. Has it been received?

Nah. Get to work, Nancy.