News

Menlo Park: Weapons brandished along El Camino Real in two incidents, police say

 

Two separate disputes along El Camino Real in Menlo Park on Friday, Dec. 4, led to weapons being brandished: in one case a pistol, and in the other a hammer, police said.

After a two-vehicle collision, reported at about 4:40 p.m. and involving a blue Ford Escape and a van in the 1000 block of El Camino, the driver of the Escape had gotten got out of his vehicle and, while walking toward the van, had displayed a black semi-automatic hand gun, police said.

There were no injuries, police said. The man alleged to be carrying the gun returned to his vehicle and headed south on El Camino with one other person in the car with him, police said.

In the second incident, reported at 7:50 p.m., an argument between two men working in the 1400 block of El Camino Real evolved into a physical confrontation, with one man slapping and grabbing at the other man, and the other man displaying a hammer, police said.

Again there were no injuries, but police said the men said they wanted to press charges against each other. The District Attorney's Office has taken the case for review, police said.

Dave Boyce

Comments

19 people like this
Posted by Zeke
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 9, 2015 at 12:43 pm

I'm getting more and more scared at how many people are carrying guns in their vehicles and lash out at the smallest incident and makes threats with them. This gun violence wasn't an issue as I grew up here in the 50's, what has happened to us as a society? Do we run on fear now? Where is the respect for life, the teaching to control one's temper and talk things out, the "after you" driving technique?


2 people like this
Posted by SteveC
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Dec 10, 2015 at 8:29 am

SteveC is a registered user.

Listen to the tone of the candidates for the presidential election. People think this tone is how to be. I belief it is the "Me, Me" attitude. Don't get in my way. Sad and too bad. These types of incidents could have a very bad result.


12 people like this
Posted by dddd
a resident of Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Dec 10, 2015 at 8:52 am

"Do we run on fear now?"

Are you kidding? Total Fear has been the driving media force since the 24 hour news channels were founded. Watch Fox for an hour. Or CNN. Or MSNBC. It's PAINFUL. Then try PBS or the BBC.

- BBC: "there's a plane crash today, we'll report back later when we find out the damage and the cause"

- CNN/Fox, etc..: ""there's a plane crash today, we'll report on it NON-STOP for a month even though we know nothing, with a panel of 5 'experts' who also know nothing, but we will continue to speculate on the cause for all that time, until we decide to turn to ISIS and plant Total Fear for the next month"

Listen to any GOP candidate for President.

- I will build a wall! NO! I'll build a bigger wall than you! My wall will be bigger because rapists! Wait, my wall will be the biggest 'cuz terrorists!

And you know how bat**** crazy some are on nativism/xenophobia/religion/terror/guns...

Total Fear: this televised segment brought to you by the media and ably assisted by certain politicians (truly the only thing most are 'able' to do!)



6 people like this
Posted by pogo
a resident of Woodside: other
on Dec 10, 2015 at 11:18 am

pogo is a registered user.

As some have inferred, this is a far larger issue - there is no respect for dissenting opinion anymore.

It's not enough to say "sorry" or "I disagree." Today we must eviscerate and humiliate our opponents. You find it in Hollywood, mass media, literature, social media, Town Squares, music, news, and politics, of course.

If this attitude DIDN'T permeate every facet of our society, it would be remarkable.


2 people like this
Posted by Liz
a resident of Portola Valley: Ladera
on Dec 10, 2015 at 1:43 pm

Zeke, I think that too many people are now living on the edge of uncertainty. For too many people, life in the Bay Area has become very stressful. People wonder if they can afford a place to live, if their jobs are secure, can they afford health care, the list goes on and on. At the the same time people are surrounded by incredible wealth and extravagance and an attitude from many that if they can afford it, too bad for the less fortunate; this attitude causes resentment. It is no surprise that the stress is causing short tempers and aggression. Unfortunately, the more tempers flare and the more threatened people feel, the more likely they are to arm themselves at home and away.


2 people like this
Posted by MPer
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Dec 10, 2015 at 2:14 pm

Zeke

this is the result of the Me Generation all grown up. Way to go Baby Boomers!!


6 people like this
Posted by gunste
a resident of Portola Valley: Ladera
on Dec 10, 2015 at 7:20 pm

I do wish that the Supreme Court and all gun nuts would read the entire 2nd amendment, not just the last half:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

Few if any gun owners are part of a well regulated militia, that is the National; Guard nowadays.
Thus, the second amendment provides a broad basis for regulating guns, especially automatic weapons.
Also, that state of the union and conditions have changed since the 18th century when the amendment was written.
America now has more gun death than any other country and all of Europe.


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Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 10, 2015 at 7:28 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

"Also, that state of the union and conditions have changed since the 18th century when the amendment was written."

Times have also changed since the 14th amendment was written. Shall we abandon that one? Shall we abandon any other amendments you don't think are in keeping with the 21st century? If so, I suggest you get the legislature moving on more constitutional amendments. If you can.

While we may have more gun deaths than any other, the VAST majority are criminal killing criminal. It may sound cold, but, no great loss.


Like this comment
Posted by dddd
a resident of Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Dec 11, 2015 at 8:21 am

MV - "gun deaths than any other, the VAST majority are criminal killing criminal."

Really? Please share some data on that.

Then one assumes you define someone taking their own life as criminal (arguable) - because two thirds of gun deaths are suicides.

2013 - if I'm reading correctly, 21,175 of 32,352 gun deaths were suicide.

Same year - 16,121 homicides; 11,208 by firearms (I know, it's 31 off the above, ask the CDC about that...) Web Link

Of the 11,208, how do you know the "VAST majority are criminal killing criminal"?

thanks


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 11, 2015 at 9:00 am

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

Of the 11,208, how do you know the "VAST majority are criminal killing criminal"?

Experience.


9 people like this
Posted by dddd
a resident of Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Dec 11, 2015 at 9:28 am

"Experience"

ahhh, there ya go - anecdotal evidence. It got colder yesterday, therefore my experience tells me that global warming is over. No need for factual data.

Seems to me that your claim falls into the area of ridiculous memes, unsupported by facts, such as the dis-credited 'black-on'black violence' meme that surfaced recently. I was hoping you had data.

Just curious, in your 30 years or so in law, how much anecdotal evidence can you apply to compare 11,208 homicides by firearms? 10 homicides(?) a year compared to 11,208?

You bring up a very interesting claim - I would like to see data on it.


Like this comment
Posted by Pancho Villa
a resident of Atherton: other
on Dec 11, 2015 at 12:05 pm

Pancho agrees - I would like to see stats of criminals offing adjudicated criminals.

A twofer if the numbers hold up. Otherwise its just another Fox talking point (ie. fabrication)

So sez Pancho!


2 people like this
Posted by pogo
a resident of Woodside: other
on Dec 11, 2015 at 1:18 pm

pogo is a registered user.

Yes, the vast majority of gun deaths are suicides. I don't think new laws about magazine capacity, the gun show loophole or assault weapons will prevent them.

Of the remaining third of homicides, a very large percentage are gang related. There are no precise numbers because law enforcement doesn't collect them (it can be difficult to differentiate between gang violence and non-gang "street" violence). But the National Gang Center, an agency of the federal government does collect the data. The prevalence of gang homicides varies by city size but it appears that about 60% of non-suicide gun deaths are gang related.

Web Link

That leaves 40% of the one-third - or about 13% (4,000 or so) of all homicides - that can be impacted by laws and people who respect them or are mentally competent to obey them.

No, not a small number. But people who push the 40,000 gun death number are being dishonest about the scope of the problem. It is significant, but it is one-tenth the number of preventable deaths that people suggest.


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Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 11, 2015 at 2:08 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

Thank you Pogo


6 people like this
Posted by Hersh
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 12, 2015 at 11:57 am

c'mon... numbers from the fbi or cdc, not a fed agency that gets more money by hyping their reason for existence. Even they say about their numbers...


** "caution is urged when interpreting the results presented below."

Dead giveaway.


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 12, 2015 at 1:28 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

So if experience is meaningless, then I suppose my observation that, based on my experience, drug laws don't work. And in my opinion the money spent on drug enforcement would be better spent on treatment is just "anecdotal" so it has no value, right?


Like this comment
Posted by dddd
a resident of Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Dec 13, 2015 at 9:24 am

"based on my experience, drug laws don't work"

Yup, based on your experience.

And, well, documented facts and stuff. Just google failed drug policies or even "drug laws don't work" and one can easily found stats on the failed war on drugs, which backs up your described experience.

Whereas, I'm with Hersh on preferring numbers from a more recognized source like the FBI or CDC on 'criminal on criminal' homicide. To use the self-described cautionary number of a gang task force?

Sort of a "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" thing. That's the very nature of bureaucracy.

Your experience on 'criminal on criminal' homicide vs 'other' homicide is what, maybe 5/10 direct cases a year? 10 homicides(?) a year compared to 11,208?

You bring up a very interesting claim - I would like to see more data on it.


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 13, 2015 at 9:52 am

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

"I would like to see more data on it."

So would I. Unfortunately, that is not a data point that the FBI collects in its uniform crime statistics. The only way to have a sense of the criminal status of the victims is to have experience dealing with homicides as I and many other cops have had. One can also spend time reading police reports and eek out some of those type of details. It would be nice if the FBI would identify criminal v criminal homicides. It doesn't fit with the narrative that all homicides are a bad thing so they don't.


5 people like this
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Dec 13, 2015 at 11:01 am

Peter Carpenter is a registered user.

If you are interested in some documented facts here is the summary from an excellent paper The Epidemiology of Firearm Violence in the Twenty-First Century United States byGaren J.Wintemutejust published in the Annual Reviews of Public Health:

"SUMMARY POINTS
1. The overall fatality rate from firearm violence has not changed in more than a decade.
2. Suicide is the most common form of fatal firearm violence (64.0% of deaths in 2012) and
is increasing. Homicide is decreasing.
3. Homicide risk is concentrated to a remarkable degree among Black males through much
of the life span. Mortality rates from firearm violence are very high and unchanged in
this group.
4. Suicide risk is highest among White males beginning in adolescence. They also account
for most fatalities from firearm violence and have increasing mortality rates.
5. As compared with other industrialized nations, the United States has low rates of assaultive
violence but uniquely high mortality rates from firearm homicide and suicide."

There are lots of data in the review and it is available to anyone asssociated with a university community via their Annual Reviews site license.



2 people like this
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 13, 2015 at 12:19 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

Thanks Peter.

From the same paper:

"Risk for firearm violence varies substantially across demographic subsets of the population and between states in patterns that are quite different for suicide and homicide. Suicide is far more common than homicide and its rate is increasing; the
homicide rate is decreasing."

In my opinion, suicides are a matter between the person committing suicide and their maker or whatever else they believe in. It is unfortunate, but it is their life.

The remaining are homicides.

Firearm fatalities are unchanged in the last decade: "the basic epidemiology of firearm violence, a large and costly public health problem in the United States for which the mortality rate has remained unchanged for more than a decade."

The press and other anti-firearm folks would have us believe firearm deaths are going through the roof. And, as noted above, homicides rates are going DOWN.


3 people like this
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Dec 13, 2015 at 12:40 pm

Peter Carpenter is a registered user.

"Compared with other nations, the United States is an outlier in its mortality from firearm
violence. Its rates of firearm homicide and suicide both substantially exceed those for the other
industrialized nations in the Organisation for EconomicCo-operation andDevelopment (OECD)"

The US is so much of an outlier that the US gun deaths (both suicide and homicide) per 100,000 of population is greater than the combined gun death rates per 100,000 for Finland, Switzerland, Austria and France which are the next four highest countries in this sad tally.

And for homcide by gun the US rate per 100,000 is greater than the COMBINED rates for Finland, Switzerland, Austria, France, Canada, Norway, Isreal, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Italy, Portugal, New Zealand, German, Austria, Ireland, Netherlands, Spain, UK, Japan and South Korea.


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 13, 2015 at 12:50 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

The rates are about access to firearms. Without a constitutional amendment that is unlikely to change. The report also notes the rates of assault are far higher in the countries mentioned above. The US is third to the last in rates of reported assaults.


Like this comment
Posted by Major d-son
a resident of another community
on Dec 13, 2015 at 5:03 pm

Got a link? And when you say 'rates of assault' are you saying all assault or specifically weapons assault?


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 13, 2015 at 5:54 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

Major:

unfortunately, I cannot provide a link. the information was provided to me by someone else and the information is behind a pay wall which I do not have authorization to supply. Sorry.


Like this comment
Posted by Menlo Voter
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 13, 2015 at 5:57 pm

Menlo Voter is a registered user.

Major:

as to what types of assaults the report doesn't define it, but given the countries that it reports on I'd say it is safe to say they don't involve firearms, at least most of the time. Believe it or not, Belgium reports the highest rate of assaults.


1 person likes this
Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Dec 13, 2015 at 5:58 pm

Peter Carpenter is a registered user.

Citation is:

The Epidemiology of Firearm
Violence in the Twenty-First
Century United States
Garen J.Wintemute

in the Annual Reviews of Public Health 2015 Vol. 36:

ABSTRACT
This brief review summarizes the basic epidemiology of firearm violence, a large and costly public health problem in the United States for which the mortality rate has remained unchanged for more than a decade. It presents findings for the present in light of recent trends. Risk for firearm violence varies substantially across demographic subsets of the population and between states in patterns that are quite different for suicide and homicide. Suicide is far more common than homicide and its rate is increasing; the homicide rate is decreasing. As with other important health problems, most cases of fatal firearm violence arise from large but low-risk subsets of the population; risk and burden of illness are not distributed symmetrically. Compared with other industrialized nations, the United States has uniquely high mortality rates from firearm violence.


Sorry, but further commenting on this topic has been closed.

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