[Part removed.]

They are driving people crazy. They are playing with fire. You can't do that to that many people and not expect one to snap.

It must have been really challenging work to pick/cut the photos or shoot photos from the right angle,just to leave signs from Sunnyvale & Cupertino out.

Covering a certain area doesn't necessary mean to filter out everybody who is not from that part of area. For that, as someone who has attended the protest with 40 some Sunnyvale and Cupertino residents, we have to apologize for having made your job harder.

All the orange shirts(and some in non-orange) stands for people from Sunnyvale & Cupertino (maybe the only exception was the gentleman with the amplifier), and as I can recall, there were about 80 people showing up, and more than half of them are from Sunnyvale and Cupertino. There should be at least one single sign from the guest team, but unfortunately, there is none...

Thanks for mentioning us though!

FYI, There is another summary report here (for the signs):
Web Link

Does anyone know where Surf Air customers live? Do they live in the nearby peninsula cities that are affected by the noise? Or are they driving to San Carlos from San Francisco, San Jose, and other cities that have their own airports?

Why isn't Atherton suing Surf Air like they are suing Caltrain? Because they know many Atherton residents are customers of Surf Air?

"Why isn't Atherton suing Surf Air like they are suing Caltrain? Because they know many Atherton residents are customers of Surf Air?"

Ya think?

<Together, we are stronger>

I do agree with Eric's observation that a lot of people were left out in your picture. I was also in the protest and was touched by all the participants and their signs. Noise pollution has been proven harm our health both mentally and physically. Instead of asking which city the pollution should be dumped to, we should ask why the pollution was allowed to be produced in such a populated area in the first place. I do think together, we are stronger in fighting the airplane noise. No matter where you live, our hearing range is all the same. Pushing the noise to any city is a sign of allowing "Surf Air" operating as much as they want. I hope this link will give you a broader view. Web Link

When there are more people using SurfAir every day than there are protestors perhaps they will begin to realize that the protestors do not represent the will of the community.

We live in a dynamic urban area and with that personal choice of where to live comes a wide variety of benefits and a wide variety of costs including noises from cars, trucks, trains and planes to say nothing of lawn mowers and leaf blowers.

Unfortunately, the event was not without incident, as the airport manager indicated. Our SUV was parked at the San Carlos airport on Saturday and was vandalized - a rear side window was completely shattered by several small holes.

I checked with airport manager Gretchen Kelly about the incident Boy Howdy describes. Here's what she told me:
"There was no vandalism during the protest on Saturday. Unfortunately, a vehicle in the 701 Skyway parking lot was broken into early Sunday morning. Our Security Guards believe that the break in occurred between 2 AM and 3 AM. We have no reason to believe that the break in was related to the protest."

Let’s ask ourselves a couple of questions:

1.How many people are smoking every day? According to WHO, more than 1 billion. Did we ever see any protest with participant’s number that surpasses the tobacco user? Never! Does that mean the majority of people are not concerned about tobacco which kills more than 7 million every year?

2.How much horse power is a lawn mower or leaf blower? How much horse power is a plane?

We live in a dynamic urban area. When we make our own personal choice, we do need to respect other people who choose not to be a victim of your benefits.

Noise pollution is not only harmful for our hearing. It affects our health in many ways. Just name a few: personal behavior, hypertension, hormone balance, digestive problem, nervous system development, especially for kids including baby in mother’s womb, and many more…

Noise pollution is not only harmful for our hearing. It affects our health in many ways. Just name a few: personal behavior, hypertension, hormone balance, digestive problem, nervous system development, especially for kids including baby in mother’s womb, and many more…

If you're that concerned about those things then you should probably not be living in a large urban area such as the bay area.

San Carlos Airport is a public resource, just like our roads and highways- Surf Air has as much a right to use it as anybody else. In a dense urban environment like ours, it is not reasonable to expect zero noise, and the Surf Air planes are not loud at all by historic standards. Doesn't anybody remember what it was like in the 70's with howling jet engines as the planes spooled up on descent and approach to San Francisco Airport? Aircraft technology gets better and better, and planes get quieter. The Pilatus PC-12 that Surf Air flies is designed to comply with strict Swiss noise restrictions. Personally, I like hearing the gentle overhead whoosh of a turboprop, and I'd love to be up there enjoying the view out the window. I live directly in the takeoff/landing flight pattern of Stanford Hospital's Life Flight helicopter, and that's much louder over a neighborhood than any of Surf Air's Pilatus aircraft (which I frequently also see overhead), and I accept it as part of living in an urban, full-service community. If/when any of the Surf Air detractors have a medical emergency that requires a Life Flight, they will be grateful those flights exist.

In case anyone would like to contribute towards Saturday's protest and future actions, a Go Fund Me page has been established. See here: Web Link Any amount is welcome!

Thanks for the web link.

"$950 of $2,500 goal
Raised by 18 people in 1 month"

Not very many people have put their money where their mouth is.

I rest my case that the protestors do not represent the vast majority of local residents.

Surf Air is causing problems for the legitimate use of the airport. As for pollution the closer you are to the descending craft the more pollution you will suffer.

If SA would be treated for what they are "a commercial airline' and go away SQL could get back to the business of running a general aviation airport.

Suggest anyone who is bothered by SA, call them directly not the airport. They tie up your time, activities, peace and quiet, Calling them several times a day would be much more effective,

Peter,

Very snarky remark about money raised for go fund me, below you

A snarky reply would be not everyone makes as much money $200-$400k a year as many fireman,

but I won't go there,

Private pilot (BTW I am also a Private Pilot)) - there is nothing snarky about the fact that only 18 people contributed to this fund which has been open for a month. That is well below the average rate for any Go Fund Me project.

"If SA would be treated for what they are "a commercial airline' and go away SQL could get back to the business of running a general aviation airport."

San Carlos Airport was built and has been funded a a reliever airport and, as such, it is obligated to provide access to operations such as SurfAir.

Just to set the record straight - The CalmTheSkies GoFundMe page was created on June 19, 2017, so has been in existence only a little more than a day.

only 23 people out of several hundred thousand have put there money where their mouth is ...

@MPer,

You can say the same thing on EVERYTHING about any survey.

And I can say that, only 4 of you guys showed up in this thread supporting Surf Air, which is really a ignore-able number of people in the whole county. So what you commented is really NOTHING.

There are hundreds of people who show up at San Carlos every day supporting SurfAir with their hard earned dollars as paying passengers and the vast majority of them live nearby.

And there are a few people who complain.

And the rest of the population has more important things to think about.

@almanacfriend

To Peter's point most people have better things to do. I am neither a Surf Air supporter or customer. The point of my post is that very few people out of the local population are really behind the protest.

"$950 of $2,500 goal
Raised by 18 people in 1 month"

Not very many people have put their money where their mouth is.

I rest my case that the protestors do not represent the vast majority of local residents.Just to set the record straight -

Per author Barbara Wood,

The CalmTheSkies GoFundMe page was created on June 19, 2017, so has been in existence only a little more than a day.

Thanks Barbara for clearing that up,

Peter Get your story straight before you bluster and "rest your case",

At least acknowledge you mispoke.

I really liked Mr. MenloBeeKeeper’s post. You have portrayed a wonderful picture where we can clearly see someone really feels joyous in the aviation world. I respect that a lot and hope that you will still be up there and enjoy the window view with whatever changes Surf Air is willing to or has to make. We may have different opinions on the operation of Surf Air, but I believe that we both value the dedication of these medical emergency helicopters and set their needs as our top priority. I will have no hesitation to let them land on my roof in order to save people’s lives. But I will never value Surf Air the same way as I will with our emergency helicopters.

Thank you, Ms. Barbra Wood for clarifying the vandalization of the SUV is irrelevant to the protest last Saturday. Also, thank you for clarifying about the fundraising detail even though you don’t have to do so AT ALL.

Also, thank you, Mr. Private Pilot for your advice. Finding the right channel to talk is the key to solve the problem. As of now, I think, FAA, the airport, Surf Air, congressman, multiple county and city authorities and other organizations are all involved. I hope they can sit together and find a resolution for all of us.

Yes, Mr. Menlo voter, I am concerned about any impact the noise pollution will have on my health, my family’s health and even our next generation’s health. Bay Area is such a great place to be. I have enjoyed my life here for more than 20 years. Most of us are trying very hard to keep the environment as friendly for health living as possible. Your comments certainly helped me realizing that we can’t rely on someone who is not even concerned about his/her own health to respect other people’s concern and well-being.

Dear Mr. Peter Carpenter, I happen to know a couple of private pilots with similar logic and common sense as most of us. I had a hard time to follow your logic when you concluded the majority people are not concerned based on the number comparison of protesters and users. Later, comes with the snarky comment about the fundraising. I hope that your next parameter will make more sense.

For all of us here and out in the real world, there are a lot of data available that can help us look into this issue, especially to determine whether people are concerned about the noise.

From Jan—Jun 2013, SQL received 51 noise complaints
From Jan—Jun. 17th, SQL received 37,997 noise complaints.

Thank you, “Almanac” for providing “Town Square” for us to peacefully share our thoughts and information.

When The Surf's Down posted the web link I immediately went to it and I then copied the exact data on that site:

Posted by Peter Carpenter
a resident of Atherton: Lindenwood
on Jun 20, 2017 at 5:33 pm
Peter Carpenter is a registered user.
Thanks for the web link.

"$950 of $2,500 goal
Raised by 18 people in 1 month"


After I posted that data the web site was wiped clean and a "new" web site was created.

Latest data :

$1,270 of $2,500 goal
Raised by 25 people in 2 days


Not a very impressive display of commitment.

In that same period hundreds of people paid tens of thousands of dollars to fly on SurfAir.

As a pilot, I suggest whatever we can do to allow SQL to get back to normal operations, please do so,

If you are disturbed by Surf Air flights, Please contact Surf Air, directly,

As you can see 38, 000 complaints this year has yielded very little, except a lot of talk and more flights. SA has O respect for those suffering and the effect is has on the Airport trying to conduct business,

That averages 227 complaints a day, If those were complaint calls made directly to Surf Airs' office they would act with an immediate response to mitigate their problem.
Be courteous but w/ ferver. I have called, it takes a couple tries to work your way up the food chain but 3 minutes of your time will go a long way to getting action.

SA Corporate office 424-272-0359, If every flight disturbs you call every time one flies over.

yep, 38,000 complaints. From the same 1000 people. 1000 people out of hundreds of thousands living under the SQL flight path. Sorry, 1000 out of hundreds of thousands does not a mandate make.

The irony of the mass of traffic on 101 in the background of those photo's is choice given the topic. I live about a mile from KSQL and I hear *far* more noise from 101 and Caltrain than the general aviation traffic. And when I do hear something loud enough to get my attention it's invariably an old beaten Cessna transiting to or from Half Moon Bay, not one of Surf Airs modern PC-12's. Indeed I'm thrilled that Surf Air is doing so well, good on them for innovating in the archaic air transport business, I see myself as a likely customer within the next few years.

Peter, comparing the contributions to a GoFundMe campaign to a paid service is apples and oranges.

There are any number of reasons why a GoFundMe campain might not attract contributions even from supporters. I can't stand certain politicians and many of the causes they support, for example. But if I would go broke quickly if I contributed money to every organization opposing them. Or perhaps I find their protests ineffective, but still believe in their cause. Or perhaps I am skeptical about GoFundMe in general (there are scams -- not saying this is one). Or perhaps many people don't know the fund exists. Or maybe they prefer to support the cause in other ways (phone calls, emails, etc). Or maybe they are simply part of the silent majority who don't like something but don't want to spend money trying to mitigate a problem they didn't create.

Other people, on the other hand, are happy to spend money on a service even if that service bothers or negatively impacts other people. They may not even be aware it's disturbing many others.

"Peter, comparing the contributions to a GoFundMe campaign to a paid service is apples and oranges."

Not at all. Some people are paying to obtain transportation while others are paying to stop that form of transportation.

Hi "Peter Carpenter",

Some people are paying to have that transportation which generates noise to local people; and the impacted people (mostly long time residents in the neighborhood) HAD to pay to stop that noise.

So you are talking about the 'money talk' without any regards to environmental impact? Humanity?

It this a pure competition on who is richer? I guess you always win considering the client base of Surf Air is more likely to be executives from big company. But does that mean that you can screw people's life however you like? I do not think so!

But even small amount can adds up to a cost that no big company can afford, let's wait and see!

I simply give equal weight to the number of people who use SurfAir as I do to the number of people who oppose SurfAir.

Someone else introduced the metric of how much protestors were willing to pay into a protest SurfAir fund and I posited that the equivalent dollar number is how much people are prepared to spend to support SurFair.

heads count vs head count

$ vs $

This a link of how Isis gets money for their operation:
Web Link

This is a link of how one neighborhood gets funded:
Web Link

If you compare the amount, I guess ISIS would be the winner, what does that tell us?

This is not a fight between rich and poor. This is about our right to use and our obligation to protect our resources. California is the very first state to enact a statewide smoking ban. Rich or poor, no exception! Smog check is for vehicles inspection. Whether the owner or the passengers are rich or poor, there is no exception! Besides, I don’t I think most of our Surf Air customers only have hard owned money. They do have good hearts too. Let’s give them and all of us enough time to revalue the balance between the convenience and the noise pollution.

Dear Town Square moderator, I think we ought to set an age limit for joining this group. We should be at least mature enough to understand that money is not everything. It certainly won’t make someone’s statement or behavior wrong to right.

Sammy - You assume that everyone shares your view that the SurfAir flights create noise pollution. The data does not support your assumption.


I see and hear almost every SurfAir flight as it passes over my home. There are NOT as loud as a 767. There are NOT as loud as a leaf blower. Each flight transits in less than 30 seconds. They are not at 800 ft.

Peter, I don’t assume. I look at the number of the complaints. My ears can tell the difference between an air plane and a leaf blower. It is so much louder over my home.

"My ears can tell the difference between an air plane and a leaf blower. It is so much louder over my home. "

The scientific data do not support your perception.

A sound expert did a mutli-day recording in my backyard and the local sounds ( leaf blowers, garbage trucks etc.) were much louder than SurfAir.

Let's see, this is not about leaf blowers, who by the way come once a week or less, or garbage trucks also come once a week and during the day,

SA comes over 25+ times a day, Morning, noon and night,

If a leaf blower or a garbage truck came by your house 25 times a day, I'll take a wild guess that you might be bothered and complain, Let me know.

Also I don't think every SA flight comes over your house, Why would you make such a ridiculous statement . when you make those types of statements you lose credibility,

Peter, let’s be scientific.
The largest scale of statistical analysis of the impact of aircraft noise on health was carried out by Germany's central environmental office. The health data of over one million residents around the airport were collected and analyzed. This German study concluded that aircraft noise clearly and significantly impairs health. Statistically significant health effects did start as early as from an average sound pressure level of 40 dp.

What is the reading of your sound expert’s? Don’t tell me it was 39.9. Also, how many times do you use your leaf blower in a day? How many noisy planes pass over your home? I am neither expecting your answer, nor going into any unreasonable argument.

By the way, you don’t have to invite any sound expert to make it a “scientific data”. A smartphone app will do the work just fine.

I live in San Carlos, in the hills near 280. I hear noise from planes, presumably from SFO and San Carlos Airport, pretty much all the time. I also hear noise from 280. This is an urban environment and epicenter of a booming economy. I could get mad and stew about the noise, but I'm very busy just trying to make a living. I consider the noise to be one of the trade offs of living here, just like the traffic, crowding and crazy cost of living. I just don't understand why some residents think they deserve special treatment. Would you be just fine with Surf Air if they flew a different path and disrupted someone else's tranquility?

Editor at Large,

I would be just fine if SA flew all 25 flights a day over your house.

BTW,
I believe we live in a suburban area. Not an Urban Area.

So you bought a house under the approach end of an airport.

So you thought existing conditions at the time you purchased would never change.

So things changed. They always do.

Suck it up and accept the outcome of YOUR decision to purchase a home under an airport approach.

Stop expecting the rest of the world to adjust to your, ultimately, poor decision.

I thought he was volunteering.

Also just wanted to clear up that urban thing.

Boy what a sorry bunch of defeated citizens we would be if we listened to "Menlo Voter". I did not buy a house "under the approach of an airport". My house is plenty distant from the airport but the noise of the Surfair turboprops is disturbing at best. Yes things change.
Guess what? If everyone just went around blindly accepting change, we would have no San Francisco Bay. The bay would be a rivulet. That's what the army core of engineers had planned for our area. It was a "done deal". Fortunately three prominent women fought the continual filling in of the bay, started the "Save the Bay" compain, got the attention of Mayor Moscone in the early 70s. If it weren't for their diligent work and concern about "Change" you would not be enjoying any bay breezes and natural cooling pattern that make the bay area pleasant to live in. People have the right to fight for clean air, clean water, less noise and light pollution. Most of us care about maintaining our quality of life, if you don't that's OK. I think it's worth fighting to change the wrong kind of change.

" I did not buy a house "under the approach of an airport"

Wrong - Your house is and has been for decades under the approach path to San Carlos Airport.

" I did not buy a house "under the approach of an airport"."

Actually you did. Unless you bought your home before World War I, you bought a home under the approach to an airport.

"The San Carlos Flying Field was established during World War I by J. Pauling Edwards on a five-acre field south of Cordilleras Creek. San Carlos' first pilot's certificate was issued on July 10, 1917 to Lieutenant Prince.[3]"

Web Link

Correction. If you bought your house after 1950 you were buying in the flight path of the current airport.

Thank you Menlo Voter2, I've seen the bay documentary and it is a great comparison,

I suggest everyone see it on it's own merits, It's amazing we could have destroyed in a few years what took thousands to develop.

As to SQL, 39,000 complaints and growing, As to those of us that are pilots it's sad to see what surf air has done to the relationship the local community has enjoyed for decades be destroyed in less than 4 years.