ISRAEL: Is Now The Time To Speak Up and Take a Stand For Peace?

3 Israeli civilians killed, thousands of Palestinians killed.

Most of the deaths come from American funded weapons.

3 Billion a year in US military aid? Israel is the largest recipient of US. aid in the entire world. It receives more aid than that given to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean, put together.

Israel receives about $8.4 million dollars per day from the United States, and there is evidence that the total cost to American taxpayers is closer to $15 million a day.

Taking a stand about PEACE with a stamp????

Yesterday: "UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has strongly condemned the shelling of another UN school in Gaza as a "moral outrage and a criminal act"."

The moral outrage and criminal acts are made by Hamas when they locate their missiles in a UN school and other civilian areas.

I saw a graphic recently with two boys arm in arm, one an Isaeli and one an Arab, with the caption ANYTHING WAR CAN DO, PEACE CAN DO BETTER. That appealed to me. It makes sense. What does bloodshed accomplish that the conference table can't do better? It may be a compromise, but it is a way forward. I can't accept that war is inevitably, as strife, hatred, conflict and slaughter rages on century after century. I pray that someone, somewhere has the solution.

I stand by the Secretary General of the United Nations with:

"UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has strongly condemned the shelling of another UN school in Gaza as a "moral outrage and a criminal act"."

over an anonymous poster who claims:

"The moral outrage and criminal acts are made by Hamas..."

Editor
I suspect this "anonymous comment" is part of a larger planed PR action aimed at as many media sites as possible. I suggest deleting it.

Editor
It would also be fair and appropriate that you provide the "Report Objectionable Content" option on all anonymous Town Square postings. And yes I am commenting anonymously.

In reply to the poster please keep in mind that the 1800 Palestinians killed by Israel are the equivalent number to 280,000 being killed in the US or 28,000 killed in California. Additionally what justification is there to use shells containing white phosphorus, or flechettes, or carcinogenic Dense Inert Metal Explosive(DIME)shells on civilians or anyone for that matter.

I stand by the Secretary General of the United Nations with:........

over an anonymous poster ......

Says an anonymous poster.

An anon who quotes the Secretary General of the United Nations as a credible source, versus your noise, so you attack the poster.

Knew that was coming.

Done.

The UN NEVER supports Israel. So the fact they condemned Israel is no surprise. Where's the condemnation for Hamas locating their missiles in schools, hospitals and other civilian areas? There never is any.

Where's the condemnation for Hamas building tunnels through which to attack Israel? None.

Done

From an excellent column by Charles Krauthammer:

Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza cease-fire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.

“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

full column here: Web Link

Well, Menlo Voter apparently likes his/her tax dollars used to kill thousands of Palestinians, with zero pressure on Israel to stop.

I thought we were exceptional and a world power, and we can't even stop Israel from using our money and our weapons from killing civilians?

Exceptional. Way to go. Let's borrow more money from China and send it over so they can kill more people.

Krauthammer? Just another chickenhawk who never joined up himself. Loves every war, but didn't go to Vietnam when he was 18.

Chickenhawks, and sending tax dollars, and money borrowed to China, to another country, without any say in who they kill.

They snub their noses at us.

At you. And laugh.

But they take YOUR MONEY!!!!!

WWJD?

So sad…….two unarmed teens killed....Web Link

Don't like Krauthammer huh so you attack him rather then the message. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

If someone keeps launching missiles at Israel are they just supposed to sit there and take it? Would we? Hell no. The reason the Israelis are killing civilians is because Hamas places their weapons in civilian locales so they can run up the civilian death toll and claim to be "victims."

Hamas only gets stronger every time Israel kills another thousand Palestinians.

Using US tax dollars to make Hamas stronger - exceptional. Any other good plans for your tax dollars?

Yes, I called Krauthammer a chickenhawk - anytime you refer to murderous hypocrites like Cheney, et al... I will identify them as such. Americans are tired of listening to those wrong on Iraq, won't admit their mistake, and call for more war. Criminals like that should have no place in civilized society.

Krauthammer was demonstrably wrong on Iraq and so much more. Only a fool listens to a chickenhawk like that.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Krauthammer happens to be right on this one.

So what should Israel do? Just sit there and allow Hamas to attack them at will with no retaliation? Would we if it were us?

What would Jesus do? I don't know he was a Jew, so.....

"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Krauthammer happens to be right on this one." So, the chickenhawk is always wrong, but the time he agrees with you he's suddenly an expert? Okay.

I don't know what Israel should do; they've dug such a hole by killing so many civilians over and over. For every civilian killed, they create dozens if not hundreds of zealous Hamas supporters. I know there is more debate about it in Israeli papers than in American papers.

I do know what America should do - what any good Christian nation would do: quit sending money to a country that indiscriminately kills civilians, and then laughs at us when we object.

Our money - our rules.

Jesus, Jew or not, said: "When you did it to them; it was like you did it to me"

"Say Goodbye to this thread" is paramount to being an ostrich. The war will rage on whether you turn a blind eye, or your back, to an obvious serious humanitarian problem. An old expression is "take an eye for an eye and we'll all wind up blind". All this ongoing fighting leaves many dead, injured and pyschologically wounded. Talking about the problem over the breakfast table, or in this Town Square may be educational, entertaining and thought provoking, but as they say "action speaks louder than words". If more people, cities, counties, states and countries spoke up and said enough is enough, maybe countries that take to violence to solve their problems, versus the conference table, will have no choice but to choose peace.

What's happening there is absolutely none of the United States' business. We should stop sending money that we don't have to either side, and get the hell out of the way.

I love it. It's all Israel's fault. Who attacked who?

"It's all Israel's fault"

Straw man. And poorly played, at that.

Israel is at fault, as is Hamas. As I recall, no one but Menlo Voter has said "It's all Israel's fault."

Israel makes Hamas stronger with every Palestinian they kill. Exponentially.

And they kill them with American weapons and taxpayer dollars. So you and I are making Hamas stronger.

Exceptional, our YouEssofVay.

oh yeah: kudos to the editors... my moniker is clearly wrong. Well done.

Web Link

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: "They use telegenically dead Palestinians for their cause."

Killed by our dollars and weapons.

Way to go, BiBi. Way to dial it back for peace.

a good summation:

yes it is

say goodbye:

if Canada was raining missiles down on our heads and they were hidden amongst the civilian population what do you think we would do? Assume for a minute that Canada's stated goal was to wipe all Americans off the face of the planet and refused to negotiate.

What's truly amazing in this discussion is the absence of acknowledgement by the backers of Israel's current actions of the blatant and brutal theft of Palestinian land, and the completely illegal and unjustified settlements that have gone up on occupied land since 1967.

The classic fascist personality inflicts harm and then inflicts more harm when the victim complains. For examples, look no further than Schindler's List, or Israel for the past 40+ years.

Joe:

in case you hadn't noticed Israel gave back Gaza to the Palestinians. What did they do with it? Took international money given them to help build themselves a country and bought missiles and built tunnels with it. the Palestinians are there own worst enemy.

I'm sorry, but I cannot dignify that assertion with a response.

The fact is there were no Israeli counter attacks in Gaza until Hamas launched barrage after barrage of missles aimed at Israeli cities. The last truce held until Hamas resumed their attacks. When Hamas says they oppose the "occupation," they specifically reference the entire state of Israel and promise to eradicate all 6 million Jews.

Kill another thousand palastiniansn, create another ten thousand hamas supporters.

No worries. Bibi can buy get more bullets and bucks from our "state" department.

See? A good strategy to stay in office and avenge his brothers death. War kept bush and cheney in office.

TO: "Say goodbye to this thread"

I am Jewish and I strongly object to you calling America "a Christian country." America is for ALL religions! There is nothing about the creation of this country that says it is only for Christians!

I also disagree with these anti-semites who are on the side of Hamas and cannot see that Hamas started the war, has been shelling Israel all along anytime they feel like it, and cannot get it into their heads that the UN over there is on Hamas' side. Haven't you read that Hamas hides missiles in the UN shelters, in their schools and in their mosques? It sounds like you are blind to the truth! Hamas wants more of their own people killed so they can be viewed as the victims and thinks that then the world will all be on their side. They say Allah values death more than life. What the heck is wrong with all of you?

Here is a great article regarding this issue:

Web Link

"So by all means, cry for the Palestinian people – men women and children – whose duly elected leadership has callously left them without protection from just retribution for their terrorist crimes. The leaders who took their people’s aid money and are living in Qatar in five star hotels building shopping centers for themselves. Who built terrorist tunnels under their homes, mosques, hospitals and schools, and recruited their sons to die for Allah, while they sit in bunkers waiting for the U.N. to rescue them."

Joe: it's not just me saying it.

Menlo Voter: not even going to try to defend your straw man "It's all Israel's fault"?? And now you blindly paste Naomi Ragen's op-ed? Nice critical thinking.

Do you support using American weapons you paid for, your tax dollars and money borrowed from China to kill thousands of Palestinians?

Do you support having your money used on what the UN Secretary-General calls a "moral outrage and a criminal act"?

Do you support Israel creating a stronger Hamas with every civilian they kill?

say goodbye:

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine:

if Canada was raining missiles down on our heads and they were hidden amongst the civilian population what do you think we would do? Assume for a minute that Canada's stated goal was to wipe all Americans off the face of the planet and refused to negotiate.

"Say Goodbye to the Thread" is the most active participate in this ongoing discussion. It seems a bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say, Peter.... Yes, there are two sides to every story, however, it doesn't make one side necesarily right or wrong. Each reader has to decide for themselves. Quite frankly, if more people in the world took a stronger stand that peace can be achieved in non-violent ways, we might have a prayer of making some progress. Agreeing that Hamas can kill, kill, kill in some justified way only exasperates and prolongs the problem. In the end, "right" prevails over "wrong", but sadly, too many lives may be lost in the process.

"if Canada was raining missiles down on our heads" and killed three American civilians while we killed a couple thousand Canadian citizens thus radicalizing Canada's political parties and citizenry, I'd have a real problem with our politicians and their ability to solve problems.

Now you can answer: Do you support using American weapons you paid for, your tax dollars and money borrowed from China to kill thousands of Palestinians?
Do you support having your money used on what the UN Secretary-General calls a "moral outrage and a criminal act"? Do you support Israel creating a stronger Hamas with every civilian they kill?

Tom: who is "Agreeing that Hamas can kill, kill, kill in some justified way"?

Joining the straw man fallacy of Menlo Voter?

Tom: do you support Israel's use of US money and weapons to kill and thus further radicalize and build Hamas?

I do not. I do not know how this gets solved. I do believe just that sending more weapons into the conflict, without offering any meaningful pressure to drive the parties to a peaceful solution, is wrong.

Our SoS has seen war. Obama has not. Most of the chickenhawks advocating violence have not. Funny, it was the chickenhawks that attacked our current SoS a decade ago about his service.

Sliming our vets for political gain - treasonous.

say goodbye:

sorry, you don't get to reframe the question to suit your needs. Nice try. Answer the question.

Q: "if Canada was raining missiles down on our heads and they were hidden amongst the civilian population what do you think we would do?"

A: if Canada was raining missiles down from Fort Erie into Buffalo and killed three American civilians while we killed a couple thousand Canadian citizens thus radicalizing Canada's political parties and citizenry, I'd have a real problem with our politicians and their ability to solve problems.

That's not re-framing. That's what is happening.

Bibi needs Hamas. He's a hawk, he personally can't afford to weaken Hamas and let his enemy go away - he would be swept out of office. Bush (Cheney) needed Al Qaeda to more than double military spending, and even to do things that didn't involve AQ (like Iraq.) Obama, of course, doesn't have the guts to cut defense spending.

Now, without re-framing:

- Do you support using American weapons you paid for, your tax dollars and money borrowed from China to kill thousands of Palestinians?

- Do you support having your money used on what the UN Secretary-General calls a "moral outrage and a criminal act"?

- Do you support Israel creating a stronger Hamas with every civilian they kill?

Hawks need war and do anything to sabatoge peace.

Chickenhawks? Awesome. Haven't heard that one in awhile. Chickenhawks have earned nothing. Especially the right to endorse war. And if they endorsed Iraq, they should be too ashamed to show their faces.

Creating peace is difficult. Much harder than lobbing tens of thousands of artillery shells into populated areas. Or missiles.

It takes teal courage. Begin-type courage. He was killed for it.

Say goodbye:

Hamas didn't lob missiles and kill three people. They kidnapped and nurdered three people. When some Israeli whack job took it upon himself to murder a Palestinian Hamas started lobbing missiles. Talk about an out of scale response.

I think you are still dodging my question because you know the answer. We would respond just as Israel is responding. It would be wonderful not to have to you can't negotiate with someone that will not be satisfied until you are wiped from the face of the eaorth.

No I don't have a problem supplying weapons to Israel. It is the only stable democracy in the region.

Menlo Voter, your argument falls apart because you ignore the nuances of what happens when human beings are pushed beyond their limits by interlopers with a highly questionable justification for coming there and appropriating the real property of others and telling them to find another place to live. Israel is a powerful interloper with a very powerful friend, but an interloper nonetheless.

The response of the Palestinians is not specific to the Middle East. Any community might respond similarly. What the Palestinians are not doing is giving up or going away or forgiving and forgetting. Who can blame them?

If Israel has moral standing, where is the international support for it? Apartheid was indefensible and justifiably condemned -- though the US was not on board for the longest time. Our official stance on this ongoing outrage is another shameful chapter in US foreign policy.

Menlo Voter wants to build settlements in Fort Erie. When the Canadians toss some relatively ineffective missiles over the border, Menlo Voter wants to level the Canadian town, and who cares how many civilians they kill, thus radicalizing the Canadians into installing extreme leaders.


Q: - Do you support Israel creating a stronger Hamas with every civilian they kill?
MV answer: "No I don't have a problem supplying weapons to Israel. It is the only stable democracy in the region." Nice reply, Dick Cheney (the chickenhawk's general.)


Thus it continues. Enable Israel to further radicalize Hamas without American leadership forcing them to seek peace under the terms of gifting them free weapons . Just like Bush - they don't give a crap about how many Iraqis get killed. How many brave American soldiers get killed. However many brave Israeli soldiers get killed. Oh, they'll give good speeches and at least Bibi goes to some funerals for show (unlike Bush.) Bibi has no incentive for peace. He has incentive to create a stronger Hamas.

They keep their job and feed the military industrial complex that pays them off.

Bibi thus is the wartime leader, cementing his status.

How's that working out for your tax dollars - creating a stronger Hamas? How's that working out for the region? Nice and stable now?

Exceptional.

say goodbye:

you can't make peace with someone that wants to wipe you off the face of the earth. there's no middle ground.

We shouldn't send American taxpayer dollars without strings attached to a hawk who's first goal is to take actions that further radicalize the population thus strengthening his hand.

We are the enabler to a war addict. I agree with Say Goodbye. WWJD? Not pour gas on the fire and kill more of God's children.

As a libertarian, I do not see how we can justify supporting the aggressor in this conflict. We are supporting a country that creates a blockade that limits food and medicine. It limits access to the sea for fishing.This blockade and other actions force civilians to support radical solutions. If big government is going to get involved all over the world, we should at least demand a plan for a sustainable solution and concrete steps towards that solution be in place in exchange for our dollars. That solution can only be a peaceful resolution or outright takeover, nothing in between that keeps sapping our dollars.

Blockades, encroaching settlements in violation of Oslo, and invasion every few years is not the sustainable solution. As noted above, it just radicalizes the opposition. Nuke 'em, or back off and feed them/let them feed themselves.

Clearly, the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank support the radicalization due to the settlements and blockade giving them no other options. The aggressor violated the agreement with the PLO from a couple decades ago; the civilians know that and have no choice to go a "peaceful" route, given the blockades, etc..

That, and having relatives killed by an aggressor will radicalize any person (see: Iraq.)

Other than our dollars, what other country supports the aggressor in this eternal conflict? Poland? the Fiji Islands?

Saudi Arabia needs to quit funding ISIS and other terrorists. Qatar, Kuwait, the House of Saud are just as culpable as the Bibi-led war hawks and apartheid of Israel.

Saudi Arabia beheaded a dozen people last month. Where's the outrage?

Time to put solar panels on every building and convert to electric/hybrid cars more quickly. Worth every dime in subsidies/incentives.

Time to put the radical Saudi Arabia out of business.




RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

Section 1 Respect for the Integrity of the Person, Including Freedom From:

a. Arbitrary or Unlawful Deprivation of Life

The government or its agents were not known to have committed politically motivated killings during the year. However, closed court proceedings in capital cases made it impossible to determine whether the accused were allowed to present a defense or were granted basic due process, and there were reports that the government killed civilians in conflict.

The government reportedly announced 26 executions during the year, all by beheading. Death sentences for two women and one man convicted of witchcraft and sorcery were reportedly vacated. On November 10, the Supreme Court overturned the death sentence for Lebanese national Ali Hussein Sibat convicted on charges of sorcery and requested that a new panel of judges reexamine the case and issue a less severe punishment, such as deportation. The government executed 67 persons in 2009 and 102 persons in 2008.