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Social standards may have changed quite a bit since comic Lenny Bruce was arrested numerous times for obscenity in the 1960s, but the challenges of defining what’s obscene and what types of speech that law allows continues to shapeshift in our own times.
Actor Ronnie Marmo explores this-always relevant topic in his one-person show, “I’m Not a Comedian … I’m Lenny Bruce,” which he will perform Jan. 25 at the Oshman Family JCC. Marmo wrote the script and stars in the play, which was directed by Joe Mantegna.
The Los Angeles-based Marmo has been seen in shows such as “Criminal Minds,” “Lethal Weapon” and “General Hospital” and in over 70 films, including “Deuces Wild” and “Back in the Day,” according to his bio. Marmo has directed over 50 stage plays, films and TV series, and produced a dozen films and over 100 plays and musicals. He is also the artistic director of the L.A.-based theater company Theatre 68.
In his act, Bruce often used words such as “schmuck” and other, stronger blue humor, and questioned the untouchability of famous figures. The shock at Bruce’s words has long faded, but Marmo’s portrayal aims to highlight the groundbreaking nature of Bruce’s work while staying clear-eyed about his life, including his drug use. Bruce died in 1966 of a morphine overdose at 40 years old. Though his play is about someone best known as a comedian, Marmo said that the show is not a comedy.
We spoke with Marmo ahead of his Palo Alto show. He noted that the Peninsula’s proximity to San Francisco makes the performance feel particularly special to him, as he feels gratitude to the city on Bruce’s behalf. “The last place that Lenny was employed, or should I say, the only people who would still employ him, were in San Francisco,” Marmo said.
This conversation has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Embarcadero Media: What initially drew you to doing a show about Lenny Bruce?
Ronnie Marmo: A dear friend of mine is a pretty famous comic named Charlie Brill — Charlie Brill and Mitzi McCall were a great comedy team. I have lunch with Charlie Brill and Jack Burns and all these really famous old-school comics, and I get to hang out with them, like weekly. It’s got to be about 18 years ago now that Charlie asked if I knew who Lenny Bruce was. I’m a bit too young, so I was like, ‘Well, I know his name, but I grew up loving Richard Pryor, George Carlin — those guys — and I know Lenny influenced them, but that’s about all I know.’
And so he said there was this one-man show he wanted me to do. He said, ‘I’ll direct. You play Lenny.” I said no — you know, his friends at that point would have been in their 70s and 80s. They’re still alive in L.A. I’m not sure I want to take that responsibility. It took two years to talk me into it, but eventually he did, and I did the play. It was called “Lenny Bruce Is Back (and Boy Is He Pissed.)”
It was great. It ran for six months, I fell in love with Lenny, I understood it, really got it, and then about five years later, I revisited the material and did it again.
One day I woke up, though, and realized that I was leaving some stuff out. I felt like it was a great play, but a bit of a safe version of Lenny, and I wanted to tell the whole truth. I went off and wrote my own, and that’s the one I’m presenting now. We opened seven years ago, and I’ve done 452 performances. I just love doing the show, and I love presenting Lenny to people, so that’s kind of how it all happened.
Embarcadero Media: When you were putting the show together, how did you research it?
Ronnie Marmo: Well, there’s not a ton actually (of archival material) – there’s some audio, and there’s only a little bit of video. I basically just went through and got whatever I could get a hold of. It was important for me to embody him. I’m an actor first, I’m not an impressionist and I’m not a comedian. I got a hold of what I could, and then I connected with Lenny’s only daughter, Kitty Bruce, who I love, and she ended up giving me the rights to the material, which was really important to me. She also shared lots of good stuff that people don’t know about, that she gave me the blessing to put in the play. So just talking to her a lot, hanging with the family really helped with a lot of stuff as well.
Embarcadero Media: Why was Lenny Bruce’s comedy considered so groundbreaking for the time?
Ronnie Marmo: Well, he was the first guy to really get up on stage and challenge the status quo, with all the taboo subjects he wanted to talk about. And I think it was really great. Because I think people just stayed in their little boxes and were afraid to say what they thought, or felt, or even challenge ideas. But Lenny was just that guy.
A little bit of trivia: He was the last person in America to be arrested for word crimes in a comedy club. He was arrested for saying words that they deemed obscene, and today you would just giggle, because they’re silly little words. In the ’60s, that’s not how people felt. So it was pretty wild.
Embarcadero Media: His arrest was just for saying “dirty words?” That’s what was obscene?
Ronnie Marmo: In some cases he didn’t even say dirty words. It was a bit. He did a very famous bit about Jackie Kennedy after the Kennedy assassination. He basically said that by putting Jackie Kennedy on the cover of Time, and (the magazine) saying that she was trying to run to get help, as opposed to just run the save her butt, he was saying, “you’re giving my daughter the wrong message, telling her that if she’s scared and she runs, she’s not a good girl like Jackie Kennedy.” He had said that at a comedy club, and they arrested him for that.
Here’s the truth: They used the dirty words (as a pretext). Lenny would say, “there are no dirty words, just dirty minds.” It’s all about the intention, which I agree with. But he basically was the smartest guy in the room, and I think they were threatened by him. That’s really what I think it comes down to.
Embarcadero Media: The show explores the darker aspects of Bruce’s life. How did you strike that balance with his comedy? You don’t shy away from his drug use or anything like that — and the show opens with him dead on the toilet?
Ronnie Marmo: Dead, naked on the toilet — pretty shocking opening image. You know, here’s the thing: I feel like when people try to do a thing on Lenny, it’s either really cute and fluffy or it’s just about the bitter, angry guy at the end of his life. And I wanted to tell the whole story to the best of my ability in 90 minutes. I mean, how do you do that? But it was important to me to tell the whole story (so) that people understood who he was as a man and what he went through, as opposed to just an angry comic at the end of his life.
I wanted to tell it all, and that’s why I start the play in such a shocking way, because it gets people’s attention.
Some people think I’m sleeping on the toilet. Sometimes there’s a lot of giggles, and I’m thinking, ‘Oh, you just wait till the end of this.’ It was important for me to tell the whole truth. And feel like, if you watched anything else (about) Lenny Bruce, you probably didn’t get the story. But once you come see the play, ‘okay, now I’m fully informed.’
Embarcadero Media: In working on the show and portraying Lenny Bruce, what have you learned about him that surprised you?
Ronnie Marmo: Because I didn’t know as much as other people did about him, and because I grew up in the next generation after them, I didn’t have any real expectations other than a couple of blurbs I heard about him. It was all kind of new. But I guess the thing that I feel strongest about, to answer that question, is just his humanity and who he was and what he fought for. He wasn’t a shock comic for the sake of shock. He wasn’t just trying to make you have a reaction. He was authentic. He meant what he said.
Embarcadero Media: Joe Mantegna directed the play, and you have a long time working relationship and friendship with him. How would you say that has shaped the show?
Ronnie Marmo: Not only is he a humongous talent, but he’s just the greatest guy in the world, and so it helped the show. I mean, specifically, every rehearsal, every moment, I didn’t take a minute off. With Joe sitting there, he and I, in a theater for six hours a day, I knew that I had to bring my very, very best every single time because I don’t want to waste his time.
He demanded excellence from me, and I think I’m a better actor because I got to work with him. I always think that my past directors in my career have been my greatest teachers, and he’s certainly at the very top of that list.
He also helped me a lot with the dramaturgy. When I brought the script to him, he read and reread it about six weeks before we went into rehearsal. It was his idea to move a couple of things around and to open the show that way. He’s just the best.
Embarcadero Media: What do you hope that audiences take away from seeing the show?
Ronnie Marmo: Well, if you ask Joe Mantegna that, he would always say, ‘I hope that they feel like it’s time well-spent, that they got something out of it.’
What I hope they take away is that they just open their hearts and open their minds. The theater has the power to change people, and I always believe that if (audiences) can leave slightly different, or considering something else than what they walked through the door with, then that’s really cool.
The show is very thought-provoking and very, very funny, but also it’s a tragedy. So people always say, ‘Oh, is it a comedy?’ I say, ‘Well, it’s the funniest tragedy you’re gonna see.’ I hope that they learn something, and they become a fan of Lenny Bruce and what he fought for.
“I’m Not a Comedian … I’m Lenny Bruce” takes place Jan. 25, 7 p..m., at Oshman Family JCC, 3921 Fabian Way, Palo Alto. Tickets start at $49.87 (as of publication, the show had a waitlist). For more information, visit paloaltojcc.org.
